Samsung DVD-HR720 Hard Disk Upgrade

[J4m]

I have a Samsung DVD-HR720 with an 80gb hard disk installed. I want to upgrade the internal hard disk to provide more storage space for recording.

I have removed the hard drive from the player (it's a normal samsung PC Hard drive) to see if the partitions can be viewed by connecting the drive to a pc and running FDISK with no joy. Not dettered so easily I have connected the drive as a slave to see if Windows recognises the drive and it's contents and no joy again.

Furthermore I have tried to clone the drive using a new hard drive but the cloning software complains that it cannot clone an empty drive.

I have also connected a new hard drive to the recorder to see if the recorder will allow me to format a new drive but when I switch it on it constantly flashes 'LOAD' and the system doesn't fully load up.

Does anyone know if the hard drive in the Samsung DVD-HR720 can be upgraded and what the procedure is ?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[robertazimmerman]

I am not 100% certain, and should probably check this out before posting, but I think that these devices are running a Linux equivalent OS and therefore are not usable under a Windows environment.

Roberta

[J4m]

Thanks for your reply to my post.

Not being a Linux expert does this mean if I were to connect it to a machine running Linux I may be able to view what's on the drive and any partition information?

[robertazimmerman]

For example, the Toshiba RS-TX20 is a Tivo box. TiVo's software is built on top of the Linux operating system with the Linux 2.4 series kernel. If you do a bit of Googling, you'll see that Samsung apparently is using Linux in its recorders.

I would guess that you will have to format a larger drive under the Linux OS, but I'm not sure what other steps you would have to take.

Roberta

[barmoo]

I have a Samsung DVD-HR720 with an 80gb hard disk installed. I want to upgrade the internal hard disk to provide more storage space for recording.

I have removed the hard drive from the player (it's a normal samsung PC Hard drive) to see if the partitions can be viewed by connecting the drive to a pc and running FDISK with no joy. Not dettered so easily I have connected the drive as a slave to see if Windows recognises the drive and it's contents and no joy again.

Furthermore I have tried to clone the drive using a new hard drive but the cloning software complains that it cannot clone an empty drive.

I have also connected a new hard drive to the recorder to see if the recorder will allow me to format a new drive but when I switch it on it constantly flashes 'LOAD' and the system doesn't fully load up.

Does anyone know if the hard drive in the Samsung DVD-HR720 can be upgraded and what the procedure is ?

Any help would be much appreciated.

I have the same problem. The best I could come up with was using Partion Magic. It declared that the drive was unallocated (no partion, no, well, anything - even the volume info was wrong).

I thought, bollocks, so I scanned the drive with HUTIL.exe from Samsung - results OK - and HUTIL confirmed that the disc was displaying a volume aprox half what it should be.

I had recorded maybe 40hours of programming on the 80Gb.

I can bore you with the story later, but, I decided to low-format the disc in HUTIL and re-claim the native disc size. Now, (no improvement) the HR720 doesn't recognise the disc - and depending on the jumper setting, the machine displays either a nagging 'AUTO' or constant 'LOAD' message.

But I have one question for you J, can you remember the HDD jumper setting before you did your tests.

I changed the jumper from 'x' to 'slave' to run the tests. Now I wish I had noted down the original position.

I also purchased the Service Manual for guidance - sadly it makes no reference to the hard drive whatsoever - beyond how to remove it?

All of which sucks if you ask me. Sounds like a Samsung Service scam.

Any info on the hdd original jumper setting would be great.

Have Fun,

BarMoo

[Lowtrawler]

Please let me know the outcome as I would be interested to "upgrade" in the future. Did you check the Linux format before formatting? I suspect that you will have low level formatted to FAT32 or NTFS rather than Linux. Also, with Linux, it is important that you retain any partitioning before you format. If I get the time, I will take a look at the drive in my machine and attempt to report back the findings. In answer to the jumper settings, there are usually only 3: Master, Slave and Auto select. If slave doesn't work, move it to master.

[barmoo]

Please let me know the outcome as I would be interested to "upgrade" in the future.

Hi Lowtrawler,

There wont be a good outcome until I know those jumper settings under the hood

Did you check the Linux format before formatting? I suspect that you will have low level formatted to FAT32 or NTFS rather than Linux. Also, with Linux, it is important that you retain any partitioning before you format.

I found no info to link this device to Linux - so I did do a HUTIL inspired low level format; which I guess will have been FAT or NTFS, dunno.

The GUI messages for Pictures and Music have since disappeared. This leads me to believe what you are saying. Seems like on start-up (LOAD) the thinking part of the device interogates the drive, locates the partions and knows where they should be.

If I get the time, I will take a look at the drive in my machine and attempt to report back the findings.

Bit cheeky of me, but, news on the default jumper settings on your machine would have me leaping

Thereafter, I guess, you might find yourself discussing Linux to a newbie


Have Fun,

BarMoo

I have attached a pic showing MY harddrive as seen above - gives some idea of the possible jumper settings - without having to unscrew further to read the setting in words, lol. My setting (MA) may not be the correct one.

[Lowtrawler]

The picture shows fairly standard jumper settings: Master / Slave / Cable Select. If your problems really are the jumper settings and you are currently set as Master, simply move to Slave (Cable select simply allows the machine to automatically select Master or Slave if the device the drive is in supports it - I doubt that the HR-720 will do that).

I think your problem is going to be the low level format that you performed. It is likely that some of the operating system will have been on the drive and that the partition data will have been lost. If I am correct, you will need to clone a drive out of another HR-720 in order to get it working again. The process for achieving this is not currently known and may not even be possible.

It's probably going to be a week or so before I have the time to tinker with it and report back. The fact that the drive was not detected by partition magic prior to your operations is not a good sign. It suggests that the drive may not be formatted in a standard commonly recognised by a PC. Hence, imaging to another drive may be impossible / difficult. However, I have a number of tools at my disposal and a spare drive so will give it a go.

I think you currently have 2 choices:

1. Fall on the mercy of Samsung to reset your drive (obviously you have invalidated your warranty and will likely be charged).
2. Wait for an upgrade solution to be tested and available and request a drive image to be sent to you for installation on your drive. There is no guarantee such a solution will ever be available.

By all means, try the jumper settings first but I fear the worst.

Good luck.

[Lowtrawler]

Look at the thread on the Pioneer DVR-520H in the same forum as this, shouldn't be more than a post or 2 away. I suspect that Samsung are using a similar process and so it would be pointless for me to try and clone a drive.

However, it may help you. If Samsung are using the same process, you may be able to completely blank your drive - no partitions or formatting (go into DOS and use FDISK). With the completely unformatted, unpartitioned drive, reinstall to the HR720 and switch on. If you are lucky, the recorder may recognise your drive and format it for you.

Obviously do this as a last resort but it does at least hold out some hope.

[barmoo]

@ Lowtrawler,

many thanks for your avid attention to my prob - the user asking the update Q has long since gone I think. All boils down to the same thing.

I did come across the Pioneer 520 ref. I believe I downloaded that service manual too - but deleted it, hehe. Actually, there is no, hehe - have to do it again.

Some DVR's can take virgin disks and format them - I hear a lot about this. The only problem is that the Samsung Service Manual makes absolutely no reference to the hdd: replacing, formatting, having a coffee with it, et al. Zilch.

My suspicion (perhpas as you thought) is that maybe, its so lame that it can take a virgin disk and re-format it on its own terms: technically, it makes more sense.

More to the point, I am sure that my unit did that when I first hooked it up. Maybe wrong. I know I formatted something locally on the machine. ??

I can only say that with mine, of now, is that it buzzes and jigs - goes blach - and then throws out the toys and doesn't play ball. Different jumper settings instigate different amounts of blach!

I did toy with the idea of purchasing a Samsung 5400rpm 250Gb disk and trying that.

Overall, and I know ****-s* about this - albeit, I really cannot believe that Samsung would make a €220.00 unit that is too clever for its own good - especially when the HDMI solder points look gorgeously mod'able.

As for the jumper - its easy: someone has to take the hood off a virgin deck and tell me. This unit was sold worldwide There must be someone out there .......

Have Fun,

Barmoo.

[barmoo]

Thanks to someone who is either a few jumpers short of a slave, or will turn out to be a good friend - I found the default jumper: its Master. Moreover, I have been allowed to do what it takes to get my HR720 up and running again.

My first port of call would be to try and make an image of his hdd onto mine and try that. I don't want to do a simple swap, just in case there is a write process that might bugger-up his hdd when its in my machine and/or vice versa).

Clearly I have DOS and Windows at hand and the usual ghost tools. I also have a bootable 'SystemRescueCD' which has an array of Linux tools; but I don't know which, if any, are relevant.

Is there a blitz/factory reset known for the HR720?

look forward to any advice. Thanks.

P:S: save for the LSI DMN-8652 chip and a ref to FreeBSD - I am still lost on how the Pioneer thread might help me - any advice on that too would be greatly appreciated - if only to understand.

[Lowtrawler]

Glad you got the jumper settings sorted.

In relation to the Pioneer thread. The implication is that the hard drive is not actually formatted with any recognised file system and so ghost tools and cloning will not work. It is likely that the drive is formatted similar to how a CD or DVD might be formatted for use as a proxy hard drive using packet writing software such as InCD. If this is the case, you will almost certainly need to get the HR720 to format the drive for you. In the Pioneer, the player does this automatically when presented with a completely blank drive and a sequence of buttons are pressed on the maintenance remote. Luckily, the procedure has been documented for the Pioneer. Unluckily, it has not for the HR720 and so you are blazing a trail. I would try things in the following order:

(1) It is possible that I am wrong in my assumption about the formats and you can successfully clone, so try this first.
(2) The HR720 may actually automatically format a blank drive with no need for remote keys. Try this next.
(3) Find out from the Pioneer thread what the key strokes are, train a remote to work on the HR720 for those key-strokes and try to emulate (Samsungs are often rebadged Pioneers).
(4) Return to Samsung.

[RabidDog]

What you should do is google for the maintenance / system menu for your recorder and quite often that "hidden" menu contains many engineer specific items.. possibly including region setting and resets maybe even something to format/reset the HD.

[Lowtrawler]

Page 119 of the manual actually covers formatting the hard drive:

http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200507/20050704220001546_00819X_HR720_XTL_0616C.pdf

[barmoo]

Page 119 of the manual actually covers formatting the hard drive:

My machine, like the first poster, 'locks' on startup. If the GUI is there, Mr AnyKey wont pop up.

What you should do is google for the maintenance / system menu for your recorder and quite often that "hidden" menu contains many engineer specific items.. possibly including region setting and resets maybe even something to format/reset the HD.

Hi there, I have the Service manual and it makes no reference to any special service menus. It makes a reference to both Flash and Firmware CD's and how to do - and suggests a visit to samsung.com to pick them up. They are nowhere to be found

########## OF USE ###########

My machine now works - following some highly irregular procedures! and perhaps a latteral brain poke from lowtrawler. I told you about my pseudo-mate's machine already, so ...

1st machine = not working, stuck in 'LOAD' or 'AUTO' depending on how you punched it.
2nd machine = working

2nd MACHINE=>FORMAT 2nd HDD=>Hot-Swap with 1st HDD=>FORMAT 1st HDD (in 2nd machine!)=>Hot-Swap 2nd HDD back=>FORMAT 2nd HDD again (a dumb human's idea of confusing a computer, lol!).

Hot-Swapping is a highly undesirable practice: but if you have to - I disconnected the IDE first, then power (normally (sic)) I would do it the other way round, but felt that the Main board might have sensed a power down/up cycle - and I wanted that Format menu to stay put, LOL. Most would advise not hot-swapping at all, hehe.

Where does that leave us? On power-up of the 1st machine with a newly formatted 1st HDD - the language menu hit me (sound familiar?).

Whether it senses an hdd id, goes "ah, your new" I havent a clue and dont really care; but there is one thing for sure and that is that formatting a new hdd is possible.

The next step is popping-in a larger disk and trying the above method. That said, the HR720 has a specific hr720 Domino Main Board. It could be that its flashed to limit to 80GB - so if you put in a 300GB don't get pissed with me if it don't work. Everything is at your own risk.

There may be other methods but Samsung would clearly like you to give their Service Department a visit.

Have Fun.

P.S. For what its worth I made .bin copies of the head and mbr of the formatted HDD (the head contains some interesting instructions) I dont know if the head is limited to 63 sectors (maybe more) and I certainly never figured-out the actual 'format' with my lowly PC (win,dos,linux) tools.

[Lowtrawler]

Glad you got it fixed - phew!

So, it looks like you can navigate to the format menu and then hot swap the hard drive. This then allows you to format the new hard drive. Sounds pretty easy and so the only new question is whether it will format a larger drive than the 80Gb installed. Are you able to try this method with a larger drive and report back the findings? If it works, it provides a fairly simple method for expansion.

I know the machine is sold with a 120Gb drive in other parts of the world and so 120Gb should certainly be possible but what about 250Gb or 300Gb? If you do try it out, let us know:

1. Was it successful / unsuccessful?
2. Is the size correctly reported by the machine?
3. Can you actually write to the full size of the disk?

[barmoo]

I think someone else can be the guinea pig for the next phase.

I should make it clear that when my 720 went titsup I could not navigate to the format menu. All the ER work was done using a fully functional machine

I believe the HR721 was the 160gb version with a €100+ extra on the price tag. So it seems logical to upgrade a 720 to its next nearest cousin.

One might notice that during the format process on a 720, the progress bar jumps from 75% to 100% Read into that what you want.

Anyway - if anyone has a spare 160gb out there .... I will look forward to the news to.

Have Fun,

[Lowtrawler]

OK, I've given it a go.

I hot swapped the installed Samsung 80Gb drive for a 250Gb Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 while the player was at the Format screen. The disk was formatted very quickly (at the 2nd attempt, I pressed format too quickly on the first go and the new disk had not yet spun up so the format failed. Just don't press format for about 30 seconds and the whole thing then works). As per Barmoo's experience, the format is successful and you get a usable disk. Also, as per Barmoo's experience, the disk was set to master.

So far so good. Unfortunately, the reported size of the disk (in the Disc Manager) is the same as the previous 80Gb disk. It is possible that this is a reporting error and more space is actually writeable but I was unable to test that. I have no current need for the larger space and so called it a day at this point.

Unfortunately, the 250Gb disk is no longer usable by Windows - even when given a fresh format. When I get time, I will low level format the disk and hopefully regain use. This is clearly connected to the Head and MBR information to which Barmoo refers. I will report back on whether I have been able to regain use of that disk.

I have no other disks with which to test the machine and no need to try at this time. If anyone else wants to pursue, please report back for others and for future information.

[Lowtrawler]

Update: I re-wrote the MBR and did a low level format on the first 3% of the Seagate drive. Then reformatted to NTFS and it all works.

The drive appeared to be holding around 75Mb of files written to it by the HR720 although the files could not be read under Linux, DOS or Windows. I was able to see elements of the files in Hexadecimal but nothing I could make any sense off. The MBR had obviously been over-written and together with the mystery 75Mb of files were what caused my issue.

When I had put the 250Gb drive into the HR720 for formatting, it only took a few seconds to format the whole drive (certainly less than 10 seconds). Hence, I suspect that formatting under the HR720 means over-writing the MBR and adding the 75Mb of files. Presumably, the drive is then formatted on the fly as the space is used. This being the case, I think it likely the whole 250Gb would have been capable of being utilised and the space was simply being reported incorrectly.

Good luck to all who follow....

[barmoo]

Might be worth adding (since no-one has reported using a full 250GB of disk) that if you want to try a different sized disk AND want cover your back (see Lowtrawler's problem) it might, I don't know, be a good idea to copy the HEAD before you start messing. The HEAD contains the MBR AFAIK, LOL.

First, download MBRUtil.exe/MBRUtilD.exe (free on the net) and make a floppy-copy. 2). temporarily install the larger disk in your PC setup (as master) - 3). Use a Boot CD or Boot floppy to get to a DOS prompt 4). Run MBRUtilD.exe and copy the head info (of your larger hdd) to the floppy: keep safe.

Follow the 720 instructions above for formatting this larger hdd. If, as expected?, the 720 won't allow full use of capacity of larger hdd - call it a day then report back here.

To recover the hdd, install as before into your PC and using the same MNRUtil.exe recall the HEAD.bin from the floppy back onto hdd. Would seem logical to then reformat the hdd using some other tool while you are in DOS.

Hope that makes sense. Let's hope Samsung do the right thing and make a version of the 721 firmware available online - so at least a 160GB update might be possible.

As Lowtrawler said - good luck to those that follow, hehe

[bjorn toulouse]

Well my 720 has died during cutting a clip and I now have the dreaded "LOAD" screen, from this I take it if I buy a brand new replacement disk it should prompt the format screen?
I called samsung they put me in the direction of a repaircompany who wanted £30 to take 4 screwes off the case, then said it would be £130 to replace the hard disk. Any one know the modle number of the 80 or the 160?

[MissIrisM]

Well my 720 has died during cutting a clip and I now have the dreaded "LOAD" screen, from this I take it if I buy a brand new replacement disk it should prompt the format screen?
I called samsung they put me in the direction of a repaircompany who wanted £30 to take 4 screwes off the case, then said it would be £130 to replace the hard disk. Any one know the modle number of the 80 or the 160?

Samsung UK will have the model numbers you need for your recorder. And unlike those of us in the United States, you can buy the next model up, the HR730 or HR735. These might be of help to you as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-DVD-HR735-Recorder-160gb-Multiregion/dp/B000F4NNW8

Hope that helps

[bjorn toulouse]

Thanks for the info unfortunatly that modle can't record on DVD RAM, (I have about 100 of these, they last a lot longer than DVD-RW, I stripped the machine back and got the modle no of the hard disk incase any one ever needs it
SV0802E /NPS.
Incadentaly Cant source this drive anywhere.

[bjorn toulouse]

Look at the thread on the Pioneer DVR-520H in the same forum as this, shouldn't be more than a post or 2 away. I suspect that Samsung are using a similar process and so it would be pointless for me to try and clone a drive.

However, it may help you. If Samsung are using the same process, you may be able to completely blank your drive - no partitions or formatting (go into DOS and use FDISK). With the completely unformatted, unpartitioned drive, reinstall to the HR720 and switch on. If you are lucky, the recorder may recognise your drive and format it for you.

Obviously do this as a last resort but it does at least hold out some hope.

Samsung uk won't do it they pass you off to service cowboys in the uk

[Lowtrawler]

bjorn

I think you may have difficulties. The approach that I used was to hot swap the new hard disk when already at the Format screen. As your machine has already died, you will not be able to get to the format screen to do this. The only way I can see for you to get it working is to find someone else with a 720 and format your new drive in their machine and then transfer it back to yours.

[bjorn toulouse]

Such is life, I suppose I could buy one off ebay "hopfully" fix mine then punt the other one.
I got word back from CPC, the people that Samsung told me to go to get a hard disk....
" We contacted Samsung and the part you require is not avaliable as a spare part "
mmmm
would I buy another Samsung?

[Lowtrawler]

Such is life, I suppose I could buy one off ebay "hopfully" fix mine then punt the other one.
I got word back from CPC, the people that Samsung told me to go to get a hard disk....
" We contacted Samsung and the part you require is not avaliable as a spare part "
mmmm
would I buy another Samsung?

It's actually a standard IDE hard disk and so any IDE disk should do. You can pick up an 80Gb drive for under £30. The difficulty you will face is formatting it. As far as I can tell, this has to be done by the 720 itself and the only proven method is by hot swapping. It is not known whether having done this, you would be able to transfer the formatted disk to another 720 or not. It is possible that the format would be machine specific but probably not.

To achieve what you want, you need to:

1. Buy an IDE disk.
2. Find someone with a 720 and hot swap the disks whilst at the format screen (following the instructions in this thread).
3. Format the new disk.
4. Swap the disks back.
5. Install the new disk into your broken 720.
6. See if it works.

Getting a disk is easy. Your only problems will be finding another 720 and the possibility that the format is machine specific.

PS: I have sent you a PM

[g8kig]

One thing that might be worth finding out is the Disk ID information. This can be obtained by plugging the drive into a Windows PC and then running up Device Manager (Start/right click on My Computer/Hardware/Device Manager/Open up disk drives/Right click on the Samsung drive/Properties/Details) to get the ID bytes for the drive. It could be that the firmware only supports a limited set of disk IDs which is why 250GB drives can only be formatted as 80GB with hot-plugging - the recorder reads the disk ID bytes at start up. I will have a go at this when my other half is out - she has kittens when I start doing things like this in case I blow it up - I usually don't

[Lowtrawler]

It could be that the firmware only supports a limited set of disk IDs which is why 250GB drives can only be formatted as 80GB with hot-plugging - the recorder reads the disk ID bytes at start up.

Nobody has actually tested whether the full 250Gb is writeable following the hot-swap. I'm pretty sure that the drive itself is not formatted and written to in the same way as a normal hard disk. It appears to be formatted in much the same way as a DVDRW would be for use by packet writing software. The reported size of the disk stays stuck at 80GB and this may simply be a hard coded part of the HR720's firmware. It is unlikely that the HR720 reads the disk ID to provide this information.

Some of the hard disk recorders on the market are limited to making use of certain sizes of disk, others will make use of all the space presented to them. We don't know which category the HR720 falls into. It is certainly possible that although the HR720 reports a 250Gb disk as an 80Gb, the full 250Gb would be writeable.

[g406p]

Well my 720 has died during cutting a clip and I now have the dreaded "LOAD" screen, from this I take it if I buy a brand new replacement disk it should prompt the format screen?
I called samsung they put me in the direction of a repaircompany who wanted £30 to take 4 screwes off the case, then said it would be £130 to replace the hard disk. Any one know the modle number of the 80 or the 160?

Samsung UK will have the model numbers you need for your recorder. And unlike those of us in the United States, you can buy the next model up, the HR730 or HR735. These might be of help to you as well.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-DVD-HR735-Recorder-160gb-Multiregion/dp/B000F4NNW8

Hope that helps

Hi,
Having read the manual there seems to be a full reset available by using the forgotten password reset, as it states all the settings will be reset to factory defaults, may be worth a try! Its on page 127

password%20reset.bmp