1080 60i to 1080 50i

[spikespiegel17]

Hi guys, i've got a client that wants some to procure some content of mine, that was originally shot in 1080 30P.. The client however wants it rendered out in a MPG container, in 50i..

I am going to use Virtualdub/avisynth combo but would really appreciate a How-to for the 60i to 50i conversion. many thanks!

[jagabo]

So the video is 30p frames encoded as 30i (aka 60i)?

[spikespiegel17]

Hi! Yes, that is correct, (the cam settings were at 1080 30p); thats for your response!

[jagabo]

A simple 30p to 25i will be a little jerky:

WhateverSource("filename.ext") # assuming 30p source
ChangeFPS(50)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

You could try motion interpolation but that often leads to weird artifacts (requires mvtools):

function SmoothFPS2(clip source, int num, int den) { 
super = MSuper(source, pel=2, hpad=0, vpad=0, rfilter=4)
backward_1 = MAnalyse(super, chroma=false, isb=true, blksize=16, searchparam=3, plevel=0, search=3, badrange=(-24))
forward_1 = MAnalyse(super, chroma=false, isb=false, blksize=16, searchparam=3, plevel=0, search=3, badrange=(-24))
backward_2 = MRecalculate(super, chroma=false, backward_1, blksize=8, searchparam=1, search=3)
forward_2 = MRecalculate(super, chroma=false, forward_1, blksize=8, searchparam=1, search=3)
backward_3 = MRecalculate(super, chroma=false, backward_2, blksize=4, searchparam=0, search=3)
forward_3 = MRecalculate(super, chroma=false, forward_2, blksize=4, searchparam=0, search=3)
MBlockFps(source, super, backward_3, forward_3, num, den, mode=0)
} 

WhateverSource("filename.ext") # assuming 30p source
SmoothFPS2(50,1)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()

[spikespiegel17]

Hi Jagabo, thank you for the response, i am running into a whole host of problems, I really hope you can help me out !!

Ok, I am going to process out the episode in 10 bit 422 .mov file (around 11 gigs). I am trying to use vdub to go from 60i to 50i however, virtual dub is not even opening the .mov file , "is of an unknown or unsupported file type"..

My goal is to take the 1080 60i 10 bit 422 .mov file and turn it into a 1080 50i file (not sure if vdub will keep the file as 10 bit 422). And my final requirement is to turn that .mov into a .mpg

PLEASE HELP!!!

[poisondeathray]

You can load prores (I'm assuming that's what you have) into an .avs script with QTInput (using qtsource.dll) , or with FFMpegSource2 (using ffms2.dll) , then the avs into vdub

You might be able to open a mov directly in vdub with the vdub ffmpeg plugin, but vdub cannot output .mpg (if you mean mpeg2 program stream - at least not directly), so I don't know why you are using vdub at all ??

Is your final requirement 1080i50 mpg (as in mpeg2 compression, in a mpeg2 program stream) ? What kind of audio?

30p => 50i is not a good conversion to do. There are many side effects to whatever method you choose. It might be a good idea to warn them, if they don't already know. (I wouldn't want it if I was the client.)

[spikespiegel17]

I dont have prores, i'm windows based (using adobe premiere).

Yes , the final requirement is 1080i50 mpg (as in mpeg2 compression, in a mpeg2 program stream). Audio not important as its being handled separately. I have an open offer for someone who can help me with this.. I have 8 files that need to go from 1080 60i (10bit 422)movs to 1080 50i .mpg
I'm willing to pay too for your expertise. The vdub stuff is a bit beyond me, not really my area of interest.

Pls post here or pm me. Thanks!

[poisondeathray]

1) When you say 10bit 422 mov input files, do you mean uncompressed (i.e. "v210") ? if not, then what?

2) What kind of mpeg2 for the goal, what bitrates? standard long gop? I-frame ?

3) What chroma subsampling for mpeg2 goal ? standard 4:2:0 ? 4:2:2 ? (mpeg2 doesn't support 10bit, so bit depth isn't an issue)

4) Which method of conversion did you want? Did you want a) duplicates, b) duplicates with blends or c) interpolation ? They have pros and cons . 30p to 50i just is not a good conversion to do - there is no "good" way of doing it. The numbers are not not evenly divisible so you will get either jerky footage, jerky and blurry footage, or interpolation artifacts (edge morphing). One method might be better than the other depending on the nature of the footage , but in general motion interpolation will give the smoothest results . You can actually do method (a) and (b) in right in premiere

Maybe if you can provide more info on why they want mpeg2, and what they plan to do with it, it might help answer some of these questions

[poisondeathray]

Also you keep on saying you have 60i files when the camera shot in 30p. Is it "30p in 60i" ? or native 30p (30pN) ?

MOV supports native 30pN, so why in the world do you have 60i ? And even if you had "30p in 60i", there is no reason to export it like that from premiere (unless you were encoding for a blu-ray or something)

And to be very clear, you actually mean 29.97p footage and 59.94i , correct? (30p and 60i were just abbreviations)

[spikespiegel17]

Hi Poisondeathray thanks for your detailed response and helping me out!

I believe the footage is 30p (in60i), and not native pN. Frame rate IS 29.97

Answering your questions:
1) uncompressed, yes
2) This is the clients requirements: Codec: MPEG2
Frame size: 1920x1080 pixels
Aspect picture ratio (OAR): from 1.78:1, up to 2.35:1
Frame rate: 50i
Stream type: MPEG2 Video Stream (Main Profile @ High Level)
Field dominance (interlacing): Upper Field First
Bit rate: not less 50Mbit/s CBR
Chroma format: 4:2:2


3)4:2:2
4) I can go with whatever that looks best, I realize theres no 'good' way of doing it but generalmotion interpolation as you suggested would work for me.


Let me know if I havent answered anything and what you suggest. I thought of the 10 bit uncompressed 422 mov from premiere to retain the highest quality before it goes through another pass of compression to get to a .mpg

[jagabo]

You could use an AviSynth script to open the video, then HCEnc to encode it, via HCGUI if you need a GUI.

Oh wait, HCEnc doesn't support CBR encoding. You can set the max and average bitrate to the same values to get close to CBR though. Note that MPEG 2 doesn't support 2.35:1 DAR. Your choices are square pixel, 4:3, 16:9, and 2.21:1.

[poisondeathray]

1) Yes, please clarify the 2.35 AR . Do they want it letterboxed 1920x1080?

2) "I believe the footage is..." isn't good enough. What sequence settings and export settings did you use in premiere? What camera did you shoot with? What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about the exported MOV's ? copy & paste the text info back here . To be completely sure, you should actually provide a small sample, one with motion (you might cut it with quicktime pro, or mpegstreamclip)



You can do it with avisynth to ffmbc batch file, it has a xdcamhd 422 50Mb/s CBR preset , it's a common standard for many applications like broadcast

Avisynth would be used to convert the 30p footage to 60i using motion interpolation. You would write a simple script much like jagabo's example above for each video (all you do it copy & paste, changing the paths & filenames to match), then double click the batch file.

We can provide more detailed instructions once you answer the other questions

[spikespiegel17]

wow thanks for the help guys; I will go through your posts in detail and respond accordingly.. I appreciate it!

[poisondeathray]

You should also clarify the container.

Most would want it either in a mpeg2 transport stream (not a mpeg2 program stream), mxf, or mov if they were editing on a mac