Framserving in Avisynth with Virtualdub (Pal to NTSC Conversion)

[nicksteel]

Need to know how to use Virtualdub filters to change framerate for video and audio to 24fps. I have used frameserving within DVDRebuilder avs to use virtualdub filters for video segments in the past successfully. I need to know how to use virtualdub filter for changing the frame rate for video and audio from 25fps pal to 24fps ntsc. I understand how to frameserve, need to know code within avisynth avs file to call the correct virtualdub filters.

[manono]

Why do it within VDub when it can be done entirely in the AviSynth script without using VDub's filters at all?

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/FPS

[FulciLives]

You should use AviSynth scripting and skip VirtualDub ... just as manono said.

What is the source and what is the destination? For instance is it a PAL DVD to NTSC DVD or some other type of file formats?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nicksteel]

Why do it within VDub when it can be done entirely in the AviSynth script without using VDub's filters at all?

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/FPS

I plan to try this also.

Thanks.

[Evil_Burrito]

Create an avs script with Telecide + Decimate (there are lots of other filters that do the same thing). AvsP + donald graft guide (explaining the options) is a easy way to configure it.

Or skip avisynth and just use the simple program AviDemux and use auto wizard.

[nicksteel]

You should use AviSynth scripting and skip VirtualDub ... just as manono said.

What is the source and what is the destination? For instance is it a PAL DVD to NTSC DVD or some other type of file formats?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

It is PAL DVD to NTSC DVD. Am using DVDRebuilder to preserve menus. When you add a source line in DVDRebuilder's avs editor, it falls directly below the normal generated source line and is used instead. I have used this before to frameserve to unique Virtualdub filters. This is different, as I am changing the fps from 25 to 24. Trying different methods, as DVDRebuilder creates m2v files and then muxes. Will try to see if I can sync 24fps audio.

[FulciLives]

Well I have extensive knowledge of what you are trying to do but not in terms of using DVDRebuilder. Actually I have used that program but not in years and only to shrink a DVD9 to a DVD5 (never to do a format conversion).

What you want to do is easy enough if you work with just the video and audio files and then re-author later on but trying to keep the menu is just going to make your life miserable.

I honestly doubt that DVDRebuilder can do it but obviously I'm not 100% on that.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[manono]

It is PAL DVD to NTSC DVD. Am using DVDRebuilder to preserve menus.

It won't work. You can't use Rebuilder and change framerates at the same time. Nor can you use it to convert the menus from PAL to NTSC. It's easy enough to rencode your video, slowing it (and the audio, if necessary) manually, but forget about using Rebuilder for the job.

[nicksteel]

Ok. If I use HCenc with avs with assumefps to change from 25 to 24 fps, how do I change the audio fps?

I'll create a mpg from the main vobs, then use HCenc with avs using MPEG source..
Ii will deinterlace and change to 720x480, etc.
HCenc will produce a m2v
How is Assumefps changing the audio fps?

Do you have avs code line for Pal to Ntsc Assumefps?


Thanks.

[nicksteel]

I have found this: (interlaced)

loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\dgdecode.dll")
loadplugin("C:\Program Files\AviSynth 2.5\plugins\leakkerneldeint.dll")
MPEG2Source("C:\images\pc2\project\pc2.d2v")
LeakKernelDeint(order=1, threshold=10, sharp=true, twoway=false, map=false, linked=false, debug=false)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94) # or ConvertFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
#SelectEvery(4,1,2)
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
Weave()
ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true)

[manono]

Ok. If I use HCenc with avs with assumefps to change from 25 to 24 fps, how do I change the audio fps?

HCenc doesn't do audio. You should change the audio's speed in an audio program (eac3to does it easily, or BeSweet, Audacity, etc).

You should probably slow it to 23.976fps if the source is progressive, rather than 24fps. Why the reason for that interlaced script? Is your source really interlaced? Or is it progressive but only encoded as interlaced? Those are two very different things. If you don't know, make available 10 seconds or so of it.

And that script you showed makes no sense. First you deinterlaced it, and then tried to reinterlace it. And NTSC 24fps (or, preferably, 23.976fps) is only for progressive sources. You can only apply pulldown to progressive sources.

[FulciLives]

I've been using my old trusty XVID4PSP program but I already have it installed from long ago heh

I use it to set up the script then save it and put that through HCenc.

Once I save the script (with the proper resolution) I then change the resolution to the smallest that it offers and process it. This gives me an MKV with a useless video file but a converted audio file in AC-3 and ready-to-go. I demux it from the MKV then delete the MKV and then like I said run the script through HCenc for the video.

Probably not the most straight forward way but it's simple and easy LOL

Here's a script for a conversion I'm doing right now:

import("C:\Program Files (x86)\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\ AudioFunctions.avs")
import("C:\Program Files (x86)\Winnydows\XviD4PSP5\dlls\AviSynth\functions\ VideoFunctions.avs")

DirectShowSource("F:\Movies\720p\Dinner.Party.2012 .720p.HDTV.x264-NGB\Dinner.Party.2012.720p.HDTV.x264-NGB.mkv", fps=25.000, convertfps=true)

AutoYV12()
#mod2 protection
Lanczos4Resize(720, 384)
AddBorders(0, 48, 0, 48)
AssumeFPS(23.976, true)
ResampleAudio(48000)

Oh and I hate what they did to XVID4PSP after version 5.x so I'm still using the last of what I consider the great versions. Luckily you can still download it from the site. You want v5.0.37.6 rev 90

[Evil_Burrito]

Wow Nick, (I think) that script is too complex for what you are trying to do and doubt the results would be compatible.

Personally, I have not used dvd-rebuilder. If it a "one-click" program I doubt it will be able to automatically convert the menu. I have only seen 1 program that can even fully read all the parts of a menu and I can't remember what it is called. Anyways, I recommend to make your own menu or skip it and go right into the video.

[nicksteel]

Did away with script, went back to DVDRebuilder Pro frameserved to filtered VirdualDubMod. Did an interlaced PAL to NTSC yesterday, complete with menus, audio options, etc. DVDRebuilder Pro is not only a one-click program. It encodes with Avisynth, so is very flexible. It has many features for advanced users. After setting up parameters and frameservers, one pass through DVDRebuilder Pro created complete compressed NTSC DVD. It is not difficult to do, especially for a main movie only DVD. You do have to frameserve all vob's during processing for a complete DVD. The one I did had 50 open frameservers! Took about 30 minutes to set everything up. VirtualDubMod filters deinterlaced and changed the fps and aspect ratio. DVDRebuilder Pro did the rest. I used VOBBlanker to correct the aspect ratio data in the vob's afterwards.

Will test in a couple DVD players and post back.

[nicksteel]

The basic concept is that DVDRebuilder creates AVS files, encodes and then rebuilds. (One-Click off)

#------------------
# AVS File Created by DVD Rebuilder
# VOBID:01, CELLID:01
#------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\USERS\NICKSTER\DESKTOP\MOUSE1\D2VA VS\V01.D2V")
trim(0,189)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)

I add a line to force using a filtered frameserved copy of the source that corresponds to the D2V created by DVDRebuilder Pro to create the M2V that is muxed later with the original audio track. The DVDRebuilder Pro encoder (I use HCEnc) receives the converted file from VirtualDubMod instead of the original source D2V. The audio stays in sync.

#------------------
# AVS File Created by DVD Rebuilder
# VOBID:01, CELLID:01
#------------------
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files\DVD-RB PRO\DGDecode.dll")
mpeg2source("C:\USERS\NICKSTER\DESKTOP\MOUSE1\D2VA VS\V01.D2V")
avisource("C:\Users\Nickster\Desktop\Mouse1\frames erve01.vdr")
trim(0,189)
ConvertToYV12(interlaced=true)

The menus remain intact.

Look at the filters in the following:

http://www.jakeludington.com/dvd_hacks/20061125_convert_pal_to_ntsc_with_virtualdubmod.html

I just frameserve the VirtualDubMod. HCEnc shows the 720x480 interlaced as source during encode. I would think you could use Avisynth filters in the AVS instead of frameserving, but this is simple and works for me. If someone can recommend Avisynth filters that will work in this scenario without causing audio sync problems, would appreciate!

[chowmein]

DVDRebuilder doesn't convert the menus, so you must end up with a non-compliant DVD. The fact that you can play it just means that your player is OK with non-compliant DVDs.

[nicksteel]

DVDRebuilder doesn't convert the menus, so you must end up with a non-compliant DVD. The fact that you can play it just means that your player is OK with non-compliant DVDs.

Could be. I have latest version with "Enable Menu Encoding".

http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-116464.html

If the original was compliant and the structure was unchanged, why would it become non-compliant? How does a PAL menu differ from a NTSC menu? I can see that the button image placement could change due to screen height change. Also, I don't know how to check for compliance, except by testing on different players. As it plays on mine, I'm ok.

From reading other forums, I see that even DVD's changed only by Ifoedit or VOBBlanker play on most players, although there are video issues due to resizing and actual fps vs forced fps. By re-encoding, I can at least avoid that.

[Evil_Burrito]

Good for you. I am surprised you got the complete disc converted. I will keep this in mind if I ever want to do a complete pal to ntsc conversion.

[manono]

I am surprised you got the complete disc converted.

He didn't, and what he did certainly isn't the way to convert PAL to NTSC. Just as one example, have a look at the NTSC DGIndex picture above. Notice it's 24fps. Using Honor Pulldown Flags, NTSC movies on DVD properly converted from PAL aren't 24fps but 29.97fps. They don't show as NTSC (but as Film) and they aren't interlaced (but progressive).

[Evil_Burrito]

*sad face* and he was so proud.

[FulciLives]

I guess all those guides I wrote about PAL to NTSC back in the day where worthless, huh?

Sigh.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[nicksteel]

I did read the guides and do know how to re-encode and re-author, but wanted to create a simple, fast solution.

DVDRebuilder Pro v1.28.2 results for interlaced 25fps PAL to interlaced 29.97 NTSC with menus and features intact.

The menus may be "non-compliant", but the VOB's are converted to NTSC and the menus, subtitles and features all work. My only interest was to convert a PAL DVD to play on my NTSC only player without re-encoding separate files and re-authoring . I have only tested with an animated DVD that was only available as PAL. Different Avisynth filters may be necessary for a regular movie. I was unable to reencode with DVDRebuilder v098.2 (Free) due to audio issues.

Extracted full disk with DVDFab

Altered HC.ini file (in programs folder) to generate all VTS files (not just the large ones) with:

[Options]
VTS Minimum Size Re-Encode Threshold
vts_min_size=0
Range:0-?, Default: 25625 (~52 MB)

Encoded with CCE in DVDRebuilder Pro v1.28.2 with following script in the Filter Editor:

ConvertToYUY2(interlaced=true) #Probably unnessary - (I sometimes frameserve from VirtualDubMod).
# Smart bob to get 50fps video
sbdeint()
# Gamma on PAL content is generally 20% higher than NTSC,
ColorYUV(Gamma_Y= -43)
# ChangeFPS duplicates frames to reach the desired framerate
ChangeFPS(60000,1001)
# Separate new frames into fields
Separatefields()
# Alternate keeping the top field from one frame and bottom field from the next
SelectEvery(4,0,3)
# Resize fields to NTSC-compatible size
Lanczos4Resize(720,240,0,0,720,288)
# Weave fields back into interlaced video
Weave()

DVDRebuilder has audio sync problems when changing frame rates. Remuxed and corrected sound sync on only the main title set (multiple VOB's). Smaller title sets appear to be ok. (If problem, remux them too.)

Demuxed selected title set with DemuPgcDemux_1205_exe
Muxed with muxman_0_16_8
Renamed new VOB's to match DVD and overlaid into DVD folder.

Ran FixVTS1.603 (full dvd) to repair structure and "adjust your DVD files into better DVD compliance"

Changed Video Manager Menu and title set(s) attributes from PAL to NTSC 720/480 Letterbox with IfoEdit.exe

Burned, everything works on my Pioneer player.

Attached are before/after Dgindex screens. I also confirmed file data in VirtualDubMod, VLC and VideoReDo. I won't discuss menu compliance (VMGM_MAT in IfoEdit shows "TV system NTSC 525/60"), as I have no experience with menu editing, but this method allows one to use their desired AVS script, select content and encoder thru DVDRB and quickly process a complete DVD. Aside from DVDRebuilder (you can run v1.28.2 unattended with "One Click Mode"), everything else is straight forward and takes about 10-15 additional minutes.

It's fast and simple, but may or may not work for you. Its advantage over just changing the DVD video attributes with IfoEdit or VobBlanker is that you can avoid re-authoring and encode the complete DVD to NTSC size and frame rate with any Avisynth filters you desire. If you have DVDRebuilder, it's worth a try.

Again:

I was successful only using DVDRebuilder Pro v1.28.2, not the free version. It has more features and I feel it is well worth the $30.00 price.

[manono]

So, from your earlier 'success', you completely changed your method for this one. And you freely admit the menus are all messed up.

This would be easier (except for the menus, which you've messed up anyway) and the result much better doing it manually instead of trying to force DVD-Rebuilder to do it for you. Your subs are 20% larger when used for NTSC and have to be repositioned. Worst is that you hard-telecined this thing purposely, rather than encoding as progressive with pulldown. The resulting video quality is way worse than if you had done it properly. Your source isn't interlaced and neither should be your output. None of that Bobbing/ChangeFPS/Reinterlacing stuff should be necessary, except as some sort of a workaround to make it work within Rebuilder.

[nicksteel]

What? The source is interlaced. Dgindex says it's interlaced. Frame by frame in virtualdub shows it's interlaced. So the converted is interlaced. How do you convert an interlaced video? By changing it to pseudo progressive? If it were progressive, I would have changed to 720x480 and used dgpulldown to change pulldown from 25 to 29.97 - much easier.

I didn't say the menus were "all messed up". Quite the contrary. It plays perfectly. The video is smooth. The menus work perfectly. The subtitles are fine. The audio is fine.

(I changed my method because it is easier to use Avisynth filters and I wanted to increase the frame count by Bobbing..) And............the earlier one plays fine too.

I'm not going to argue. I'm sure you must know best, even without trying the method.

Whatever.

It is a simple method with good enough results for me. If criticized, I would rather it be constructive criticism from someone who has tried it, not just some "expert" opinion. I am only interested in results, not any "proper" or accepted way of doing things. This is offered to anyone who has a interlaced PAL DVD and wants to quickly and easily convert it to NTSC with acceptable quality and menus and features intact.

The point of the exercise was to discover how to use DVDRebuilder to easily convert an interlaced PAL DVD. I didn't say it's the best way, just a way. Hopefully, someone else will try this and offer improvements. Heaven knows, I am no expert and I am certainly open to advice and suggestions.

I don't mass produce DVD's and if it plays on my players, it is compliant with my players. I assume most people convert PAL to NTSC to watch the thing on their player/tv and couldn't care less if it meets anyone's opinion concerning compliance. I'm not trying to prove anything - just wanted to explain "how to" to others using DVDRebuilder who might want to try this.

If anyone doesn't believe this works without trying it, don't do it.
If someone wants to turn interlaced to progressive, go for it.
If anyone is interested in trying what I did, do it.

[manono]

What? The source is interlaced. Dgindex says it's interlaced.

Got a sample from the source? Earlier you said it's an animation. Almost by definition animations aren't interlaced.

Now go explain your method in the DVD-Rebuilder Forum at Doom9. There'll you'll encounter the developer, jdobbs.

[nicksteel]

What? The source is interlaced. Dgindex says it's interlaced.

Got a sample from the source? Earlier you said it's an animation. Almost by definition animations aren't interlaced.

Now go explain your method in the DVD-Rebuilder Forum at Doom9. There'll you'll encounter the developer, jdobbs.

Won't post copyrighted video segments in today's environment. The only way I know how to determine if a video is interlaced is to load into VirtualDub, go to a motion sequence and visually detect it. I know of no software that can really do this automatically. I realize that PAL can also have progressive source encoded as interlaced. I have read that you can convert this back to progressive. I may study filters that do this.

I also posted on Doom9 where jbdobbs has always stated that DVDRebuilder cannot change fps. Of course he is correct - it's his software (and excellent software it is!). I am changing fps with Avisynth filters during processing, not with DVDRebuilder functions. This fps change does definitely screw up DVDRebuilder muxing. I get around this by later remuxing the entire title set, not by video segment.

Again, this is something you have to try to see how it works. Even if I appear completely wrong, the video looks good, is in sync and everything works - even the chapters survive. Even if the video turns out to be progressive source encoded as interlaced, the process would remain the same with different AVS scripts to reconvert and then later adding pulldown with dgpulldown.

My normal use of DVDRebuilder is to load a DVD9 in one end and get a DVD5 out the other. Its ability to utilize AVISynth has always intrigued me, so, having time on my hands, I started tweaking things. I am satisfied with the results, although I don't expect to do another one soon.

[manono]

Won't post copyrighted video segments in today's environment.

Posting short samples for study and education is perfectly OK under Fair Use statutes. I'm curious about your claim that the source is interlaced. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe it is.

Dgindex says it's interlaced.

That means nothing. It only says how it was encoded and nothing about what the source is like.

The only way I know how to determine if a video is interlaced is to load into VirtualDub, go to a motion sequence and visually detect it.

Even seeing the interlacing can be deceptive if the fields are phase-shifted, or it's field-blended from a bad NTSC to PAL conversion.

This fps change does definitely screw up DVDRebuilder muxing. I get around this by later remuxing the entire title set, not by video segment.

Which is why it's easier (and faster, and with better quality results) to do it yourself manually.

... even the chapters survive

Just not in the same places since the source chapter frame numbers are from a 25fps source, and the output is 29.97fps. I'm having a little trouble picturing how the chapter frame numbers are automatically increasing by a factor of 29.97/25=1.1988. Are you editing the celltimes.txt yourself? And, once again, your subs aren't the same as before. They may be useable, but the BMPs are still 720x576. The subs are larger and located differently on the picture. That can all be fixed, of course, just not within DVD-Rebuilder.

No one says it can't be done. Converting videos from PAL to NTSC is trivial and one doesn't need DVD-Rebuilder for the job. It's the menus that are the hard part. And even they can be fairly easily converted if you convert the motion menus and static menus yourself for use in some authoring program that adds in the sub-pics and buttons and menu commands.

If you did it within DVD-RB, then more power to you. I didn't think you could. And you didn't, really, since you had to do a lot of fix-up work afterwards. If you can do the job with the help of DVD-RB, you can also do it yourself, completely manually.

[nicksteel]

I ran MeGUI, which has source interlace detection analysis. (attached)
Also ran SourceDetection.exe, an older less accurate precursor to MeGUI's detection analysis. (attached)

AVISynth advises use of MeGUI's analysis, as SourceDetection.exe is outIdated and not updated since incorporation into MeGUI.

Only post DVDRB fix-up was remuxing one title set with multiple vobs. 10-15 minutes max. Remember, this is only an expansion of patching a DVD in IfoEdit to allow playing PAL on a NTSC player. All I am doing is re-encoding the VOB's for size and fps. Nothing else. Just a fast and simple way of converting interlaced PAL. I've only done this one DVD. I would have to do several be confident in the method and only offered it for others to try.

Thanks for your advice on chapters. Fps change obviously has affect.

All I can say is that I have used DVDLabPro often in the past to author DVD's from multiple HCEnc encodes. I could do this with this DVD if I chose to. The whole point of the exercise was to determine if I could utilize DVDRB as a simple, fast alternative. I did, it worked. Of course patching a DVD to allow a player to use it has obvious short comings. This is not for the purest, but a "quick and dirty" way for the lazy to watch their PAL DVD's.

Does the final DVD meet all standards? No.
Will it play on all DVD players? Probably not.
Is this a simplistic approach? Definitely
Does everything work? Yes.
Would the average viewer realize that this was a conversion? No
Am I satisfied with the results? Yes.
Was it easier and faster than encoding and authoring the separate title sets? Definitely.
Is it intended to replace normal encoding and authoring? Of course not.

Even if were progressive, I would use an AVS in DVDRB to change the size and then run pulldown on the M2V's after encoding and prior to building in DVDRB. No fps would be changed, no remuxing would be necessary. Would then use IfoEdit to patch.

[manono]

MeGui's analysis is pretty much useless for some sources. I would never trust it for anything at all, least of all for the kinds of sources with which I frequently work (field-blended from bad PAL to NTSC conversions).