Transcribe from VCR, and maybe capture from TV recorder?

[Judyintexas]

News of the last VCR rolling off the line sent me back to thinking of transferring videotapes to a newer medium while my VCR is working.

I do want to transfer some commercial videos, horse training ones, for my own use. These may have the type of copy protection that was in use for VCR tapes. These were not released in a newer format. I want a recommendation that would do this. I have absolutely no intention of re-selling the products.

When I last looked many years ago a Hauppage card in the computer was the way to go. In my recent investigations, I've found the following options that are new since then:

1) The Elgato Video Capture and similar devices.

2) The Hauppauge 1212 HD-PVR High Definition Personal Video Recorder and others in that family look to capture the VCR for transfer, and also solve another problem for me, capturing the video (standard def) from some TV horse training shows for transfer to DVD. Episodes of this program are not available for sale, and again, I have no intention of sharing them, but they are filling up my Dish video recorder. I have a Magnavox DVR/DVD recorder, but have been unable to record from the Dish box to DVDs on this device with the right aspect ratio. The quality is not great either.

I have a Windows 7 64 bit pro laptop, and am in the process of specifying an i7 desktop with the same software.

I would appreciate your advice.

[Brad]

Recent thread asking similar question: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/379571-The-best-video-card-to-digitize-vhs?p=2452804

[Judyintexas]

vaporeon800, I acknowledged that I am a newbie, and that I know about capture cards. Then I asked for advice on solutions other than a card. Can you comment on, or direct me to threads that comment on, using the types of products I mentioned instead of capture cards?

[usually_quiet]

We get one or more VHS capture device requests every week for weeks on end sometimes, and since new SD capture devices are released very infrequently, there is lot of repeated advice. If ye seek using the search function, ye shall find many references to most currently available USB capture devices.

vaporeon800's link contained a link to another thread: https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/360704-2013-my-video-capture-device-comparison-scre...ht=ati+600+750 The majority of the capture devices he tested are USB devices. not cards. Some are still readily available.

Some people here also like the Hauppauge USB Live 2, the Ezcap.tv 116 or the Elgato Video Capture USB device.

The Hauppauge HD-PVR 1212 is OK for recording via component video from a satellite receiver or cable box, if you can get a better picture that way. Component video does provide a higher quality signal to record. ...but picture formatting (letterboxing/pillarboxing, and aspect ratio) for SD video may or may not be affected by the connection on the set-top box. Sometimes an improperly formatted SD picture is wrong in the broadcast itself.

if you want to do the work, the aspect ratio in the Magnavox recorder's DVDs can be fixed using software with no re-encoding needed if it is a simple matter of a 16:9 picture being recorded as 4:3. Fixing improper letterboxing/pillar boxing requires re-encoding and may not be worth the trouble.

There are not many analog copy protection strippers around. The XDimax Grex is the most frequently recommended here.

[pippas]

Then I asked for advice on solutions other than a card.

Providing you are able to use a computer with a Firewire port (so not a modern laptop) then you might like to look at acquiring a Canopus DV converter box for your task?
To permit the defeat of any protection on the tapes, you will need to look for examples of the earlier models. i.e. ADVC100 or ADVC50. ...The later ADVC110 and ADVC55 do not permit the defeat of copy protection

If you have a desktop that does not have a Firewire port, 'plug-in' Firewire cards are still quite cheap and easy to install. The ADVC converters often crop up on Ebay, but still tend to be quite expensive. However, they should be easy enough to re-sell for a good price, once you've finished.

Just a suggestion to help with overcoming your copy protection problem without needing to use a TBC (Time Base Corrector)....

[Judyintexas]

Thank you, unusually_quiet, I did try a search but maybe I am not doing it right because I got results for camera capture and other matters, and no dates on over half of the search results, which made it hard to find what I was looking for.

Pippas, thank you for the comments about the Canopus. Since I need to deal with copy protection on some devices, this may be the way for me to go for the VCR part.

[JVRaines]

The later ADVC110 and ADVC55 do not permit the defeat of copy protection

For the record, the ADVC110 does defeat macrovision using the silver button trick.

[redwudz]

You might do a search for ' Macrovision ' copy protection. That's what commercial VCR tapes normally use.
It manifests itself by changing dark/light flashing on the copied video.

Some of the older Canopus devices did defeat it, but they are very rare at present.
There are other Macrovision blocking devices to back up your own tapes, probably try Ebay.

The protection is most often on commercial video tapes of Hollywood movies. You may be lucky and not have it on your training tapes.

And welcome to our forums.

[usually_quiet]

Thank you, unusually_quiet, I did try a search but maybe I am not doing it right because I got results for camera capture and other matters, and no dates on over half of the search results, which made it hard to find what I was looking for.

Search for the capture device that you want to know about or "VHS capture". VideoHelp's own search feature provides the most relevant results at the top of the page by default. "Sort by Date" produces the most recent posts with those words at the top of the page, but not necessarily the most relevant ones. Yes you have to read the posts to determine their usefulness for your own situation.

[pippas]

The later ADVC110 and ADVC55 do not permit the defeat of copy protection

For the record, the ADVC110 does defeat macrovision using the silver button trick.

I was never quite sure whether it did or not - over the years some say yes other no. I think THIS OLD THREAD probably explains the confusion well. I'm guessing that if you follow Vhelp's instructions in post #21 it probably applies to the ADVC110 as well?......

[Judyintexas]

Thanks to all of you for your further comments, and to redwudz for the welcome.

O.K., I have learned a lot about the questions to ask in the past couple of days I found this: http://anarchivism.org/w/How_to_Rip_VHS, which suggested to look at what I have, and from my TV I have component out. The VCR is on S-video in. I have the laptop with Win 7. Unfortunately it is much too new to have a slot for a pcie card with firewire, but it is also much more portable than the new tower with a firewire card will be, and I need to leave the VCR with the TV and the TV is too big to move.

I am not planning to copy any Hollywood movies, but some of the videos are from a commercial source that no longer sells these particular videos and never offered them in DVD. I wouldn't put it past them to have used copy protection.

So here are my thoughts, and I would appreciate your comments. If I get the Elgado or the Ezcap 116 (not the similarly named devices from Amazon). is that all I need to capture unprotected videos and the standard def tv programs by using the component out to the device, with the input to the TV being the Dish 722 (HDMI) or the Magnavox HDD/DVR (I think that one is using the component in)? Am I headed in a good direction?

I would also try this with the videotapes, and if it turns out that the commercial VCR tapes are Macrovisioned, I could move the VCR near the new tower that will have firewire and use the CanopusADVC 100 from Ebay.

Am I headed in the right direction? What have I not understood or not thought about?

Thank you again!

[Judyintexas]

Thanks to all of you for your further comments, and to redwudz for the welcome.

O.K., I have learned a lot about the questions to ask in the past couple of days I found this: http://anarchivism.org/w/How_to_Rip_VHS, which suggested to look at what I have, and from my TV I have component out. The VCR is on S-video in. I have the laptop with Win 7. Unfortunately it is much too new to have a slot for a pcie card with firewire, but it is also much more portable than the new tower with a firewire card will be, and I need to leave the VCR with the TV and the TV is too big to move.

I am not planning to copy any Hollywood movies, but some of the videos are from a commercial source that no longer sells these particular videos and never offered them in DVD. I wouldn't put it past them to have used copy protection.

So here are my thoughts, and I would appreciate your comments. If I get the Elgado or the Ezcap 116 (not the similarly named devices from Amazon). is that all I need to capture unprotected videos and the standard def tv programs by using the component out to the device, with the input to the TV being the Dish 722 (HDMI) or the Magnavox HDD/DVR (I think that one is using the component in)? Am I headed in a good direction?

I would also try this with the videotapes, and if it turns out that the commercial VCR tapes are Macrovisioned, I could move the VCR near the new tower that will have firewire and use the CanopusADVC 100 from Ebay.

Am I headed in the right direction? What have I not understood or not thought about?

Thank you again!

[usually_quiet]

So here are my thoughts, and I would appreciate your comments. If I get the Elgado or the Ezcap 116 (not the similarly named devices from Amazon). is that all I need to capture unprotected videos and the standard def tv programs by using the component out to the device, with the input to the TV being the Dish 722 (HDMI) or the Magnavox HDD/DVR (I think that one is using the component in)? Am I headed in a good direction?

The Magnavox recorder only has component video connections (red + green+ blue ports) for output. It accepts input from S-Video (larger round black connection with 4 holes near the perimeter) and composite video (yellow RCA) plus stereo audio, and coax/RF-in on analog channel 3 or 4 if it is a model with an analog tuner.

The Elgato Video Capture USB and the Ezcap 116 accept input from S-Video (larger round black connection with 4 holes near the perimeter) and composite video (yellow RCA) plus stereo audio.

S-Video is the best input connection and RF is the worst. Recording from component video out (on the satellite receiver) would require other capture products. There were only a few DVD recorders ever made (and not by Magnavox) which accepted component video input, but they went out of production 9 to 10 years ago.

I would also try this with the videotapes, and if it turns out that the commercial VCR tapes are Macrovisioned, I could move the VCR near the new tower that will have firewire and use the CanopusADVC 100 from Ebay.

Am I headed in the right direction? What have I not understood or not thought about?

Thank you again!

A FireWire 400/IEEE 1394a card with a TI chipset is the most reliable option. This is one: https://www.amazon.com/Syba-Profile-PCI-Express-Chipset-SD-PEX30009/dp/B002S53IG8/ref=...id=1469739722/ (The top port is FireWire 400, the lower ports are FireWire 800.)

The XDimaX Grex also removes Macrovision, if for some reason a Canopus device doesn't work out for you.

Using a DVD recorder as a pass through (not actually recording with it, just running the connections video through it while it is powered on) sometimes corrects "wavy" VHS captures, but that largely depends on the DVD recorder. I don't know if any of the Magnavox recorders were good for that use and I have never tried it with mine.

[Brad]

I think it's very, very unlikely that these training videos were copy-protected, due to the licensing fees that the distributor would have to pay. Checking this should be as simple as hooking up the VCR to the Magnavox DVD recorder and trying to record one to a rewritable disc.

The Magnavox recorder only has component video connections (red + green+ blue ports) for output.

I had to read this several times before I took your meaning: the component jack can only be used to output. As opposed to the only output signal type available being component. Just in case that helps clarify things for the OP at all.

[Judyintexas]

usually_quiet, sorry, I misspoke. I always have to think twice about the difference between component and composite, and I didn't do that before posting. The TV video out is composite (YRW). My thought was to attach the capture device to the TV YRW on one end and the USB of the laptop on the other end. I was proposing to do this whether I was capturing from the VCR or the Dish box, both of which play to the TV. The inputs to the TV are Dish (HDMI), Magnavox (S-video), VCR (composite), and audio receiver (DVI Audio)

Also, usually_quiet, thanks for reminiding me that I want a TI chipset in the Firewire card on the new computer.

vaporeon, thank you for allaying my concerns about the copy protection.

Now, back to my (edited) question: If I get the Elgado or the Ezcap 116 (that one directly from the manufacturer). is that all I need to capture unprotected videos and the standard def tv programs by using the TV composite out to the device? Am I headed in a good direction? Would you recommend a different capture device, or another way to go altogether?

To add to the question, a post of Mar 2015 from puzZler, referring to the minor flaws among several of what I will call cable-capture devices (meaning they have a capture device in the middle and cables on each end), said "oversharpening for the ezcap.tv (until you turn it down on the proc amp)." So what do you think of using the capture device alone, or do I need a proc amp or other device?

[usually_quiet]

usually_quiet, sorry, I misspoke. I always have to think twice about the difference between component and composite, and I didn't do that before posting. The TV video out is composite (YRW). My thought was to attach the capture device to the TV YRW on one end and the USB of the laptop on the other end. I was proposing to do this whether I was capturing from the VCR or the Dish box, both of which play to the TV. The inputs to the TV are Dish (HDMI), Magnavox (S-video), VCR (composite), and audio receiver (DVI Audio)

Also, usually_quiet, thanks for reminiding me that I want a TI chipset in the Firewire card on the new computer.

vaporeon, thank you for allaying my concerns about the copy protection.

Now, back to my (edited) question: If I get the Elgado or the Ezcap 116 (that one directly from the manufacturer). is that all I need to capture unprotected videos and the standard def tv programs by using the TV composite out to the device? Am I headed in a good direction? Would you recommend a different capture device, or another way to go altogether?

To add to the question, a post of Mar 2015 from puzZler, referring to the minor flaws among several of what I will call cable-capture devices (meaning they have a capture device in the middle and cables on each end), said "oversharpening for the ezcap.tv (until you turn it down on the proc amp)." So what do you think of using the capture device alone, or do I need a proc amp or other device?

Composite out + stereo audio on a TV (may be labeled "Monitor Out") isn't common. Have you tested this connection using the Magnavox recorder to be sure it works as an AV source for recording? If so, you could certainly use it for capturing with your laptop via a USB capture device's composite video and stereo audio connections, while the TV is on, to record what the TV is displaying.

Members here who have used the EZCap.tv 116 seem to like it, although I'm sure it has some flaws. If there was a perfect USB SD capture device out there, we'd probably all have that one and no others.

The capture devices themselves often have proc amp controls among their driver interface windows. These are often accessible from within capture software.

[Judyintexas]

Thanks again, usually_quiet. I will test the "AV Out" function on the TV , which is labeled in the TV manual as Video/Audio out and has the YRW connectors. The TV manual (TV is a Samsung HL-S5688w) says those outputs can be used to send to an external source such as a VCR. It also says that the output is available only when the TV input is TV, video, or s-video. I will take your advice and test that I can actually record that way. That should give me a route to copy the videotapes: Play the videotape through the VCR to the TV (YRW video in) plug the Ezcap 116 into Video/Audio out and connect it to the laptop USB2.

I may need a more complicated route to acquire the TV programming. The manual never defines what it means by "TV mode," but I won't be surprised if it means something like the antenna connection, and that AV Out is disabled when the TV input is the HDMI that the Dish box is connected to. I will try to record to the VCR (using the YRW out) from the TV when it is playing from the Dish box, and if that works it will be great because instead of the VCR as a recorder I'll just connect the Ezcap as above to capture the content that is on the Dish recorder.

However, since I know I can play from the Dish to the Magnavox HDD and play the Magnavox saved content to the TV over its S-Video input, I can try that, then record from the YRW to the EZcap.

Does all of this sound like a plan to try?

[usually_quiet]

Thanks again, usually_quiet. I will test the "AV Out" function on the TV , which is labeled in the TV manual as Video/Audio out and has the YRW connectors. The TV manual (TV is a Samsung HL-S5688w) says those outputs can be used to send to an external source such as a VCR. It also says that the output is available only when the TV input is TV, video, or s-video. I will take your advice and test that I can actually record that way. That should give me a route to copy the videotapes: Play the videotape through the VCR to the TV (YRW video in) plug the Ezcap 116 into Video/Audio out and connect it to the laptop USB2.

I may need a more complicated route to acquire the TV programming. The manual never defines what it means by "TV mode," but I won't be surprised if it means something like the antenna connection, and that AV Out is disabled when the TV input is the HDMI that the Dish box is connected to. I will try to record to the VCR (using the YRW out) from the TV when it is playing from the Dish box, and if that works it will be great because instead of the VCR as a recorder I'll just connect the Ezcap as above to capture the content that is on the Dish recorder.

"TV mode" is likely to mean watching TV using the TV's tuner as your source. Most devices add HDCP copy protection to their HDMI output to prevent recording. So, yes it is likely the TV's "AV Out" is disabled when you are using HDMI to prevent viewers from bypassing HDCP copy protection.

However, since I know I can play from the Dish to the Magnavox HDD and play the Magnavox saved content to the TV over its S-Video input, I can try that, then record from the YRW to the EZcap.

Does all of this sound like a plan to try?

It seems feasible. The EzCap.tv 116 can use S-Video for input too.

[Judyintexas]

Thank you to all of you. I know enough and have been given enough good advice to test the AV Out, and if it works, order the EZcap. I'll let you know how it goes!