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  1. Hi guys i came across strange tape ( i think it is first copy i guess of aerial tv 1992 ? recorded by my uncle ). It shoes some wavines like some tbc error i try the tbc on and off on the vcr and noise on and of ( panasonic nv fs 200 my other vcr is not here today panasonic nv hs 1000 to try on that). And it is the same i tried also passtrough pana es15 and the same thing what can it be? The source is not so bad to make this things

    The file is encoded to h264 by me to upload small file here it is ( usual stuff lagarith 720 576 25 fps )
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  2. Yes, those are time base errors. You need a line TBC to correct it.
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  3. Yes, those are time base errors. You need a line TBC to correct it.
    But the thing is why vcr ( which has full field tbc ) and dvd recorder that has line tbc don't correct it ?
    I don't get it it is like turning on the tbc and of on the vcr don't do anything ( could it be that the tbc in vcr died ) but then again panasonic dmr es15 passtrough doesent do nothing also.
    really weird
    Last edited by mammo1789; 6th Apr 2012 at 19:42.
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  4. Member luigi2000's Avatar
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    This appears to be a recording made on vhs tape recorder. The frames are interlaced, the luminance bandwidth is 2Mhz, and the color is heterodyned to less than 1 MHz. The vhs tape transport and the associated analog electronic circuitry recorded motion pictures of low quality. Dropout compensation is black and white only.

    A high quality tbc with heterodyne color correction can lock the color. But there is much chroma and luma detail information lost, and noise added to the original video and noise produced by the camera. The best tbc cannot turn a poor recording into a good recording.
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  5. This appears to be a recording made on vhs tape recorder
    yes it was recorded on the Samsung vhs recorder produced around 1987 i remember because i was with him when he got it trough 3 countries ( it was very difficult to get foreign merchandise in that time especially from the unknown for that time in Europe Taiwanese company, if I'm not mistaken that year died their founder).

    The recording is from wiener Austria philharmonic orchestra on new years ( actually it always held on 1 of January) i was there 2 years latter and was phenomenal this recording is from tv.
    I never saw it on DVD ( from the 90 ties at least ) so I wanted to make it perfect ( as much as my equipment let me ) the sound I processed separately ( in Audition, Izotope rx, and Sony sound forge and i think i get it to sound pretty awesome).
    I don't think of buying any more video equipment in recent times ( this is just hobby for me ) so with the equipment describe you don't think i can get the tbc errors out?
    I can borrow full frame tbc if that helps or you think not
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  6. Since both your S-VHS deck with LTBC and the ES15 don't fix the jitter I suspect there's not much you can do.
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  7. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Do you know if the image looked more stable when it was originally recorded? This video might have been broadcast with the timebase errors in the image embedded onto a stable sync signal. If so, then a TBC will not help. I've seen worse.
    Life is better when you focus on the signals instead of the noise.
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  8. That's what I was thinking. The left and right edges of the frame are pretty clean, and it's otherwise too clean to be second or third generation VHS, so I think the jitter was in the original broadcast.
    Last edited by jagabo; 6th Apr 2012 at 23:58.
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  9. Since both your S-VHS deck with LTBC and the ES15 don't fix the jitter I suspect there's not much you can do.
    That's what i tough and full frame tbc is not for that kind of task I guess it is more for the continuous sync and not the horizontal jitter .

    Do you know if the image looked more stable when it was originally recorded? This video might have been broadcast with the timebase errors in the image embedded onto a stable sync signal. If so, then a TBC will not help. I've seen worse.
    in 1992 Hm i don't remember that much, how do you mean like embedded onto a stable sync signal I think it was recorded from live event ( so no tv station player is involved here) is that possible ? I thought tbc errors are on playing side of things not on live events.

    That's what I was thinking. The left and right edges of the frame are pretty clean, and it's otherwise too clean to be second or third generation VHS, so I think the jitter was in the original broadcast.
    Yes the edges are clean and I'm almost sure that is first copy i don't recol recopying it again from then.

    Cure guys ?
    dejitter plugin ( although I never figured this thing out )?
    Last edited by mammo1789; 7th Apr 2012 at 04:01.
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  10. Member luigi2000's Avatar
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    De-interlace and re-encode to quarter-VGA 320x240 or 360x288. This is a good opportunity to experiment with different types and strengths of noise reduction. Buona fortuna.
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  11. Preservationist davideck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    Do you know if the image looked more stable when it was originally recorded? This video might have been broadcast with the timebase errors in the image embedded onto a stable sync signal. If so, then a TBC will not help. I've seen worse.
    in 1992 Hm i don't remember that much, how do you mean like embedded onto a stable sync signal I think it was recorded from live event ( so no tv station player is involved here) is that possible ? I thought tbc errors are on playing side of things not on live events.
    You are correct. I was assuming playback during broadcast. If the station ID segment at the beginning or end of the program was also recorded, then it would be interesting to know if they are improved by the TBC.
    Life is better when you focus on the signals instead of the noise.
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  12. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    In my experience, live broadcasts tend to have more video errors than replays.
    You can screw up a signal without needing tapes in the mix.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
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  13. it is often said if it is one tape only, pay the professionals
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
    USED TO BE A UK Equipment owner., NOW FINISHED WITH VHS CONVERSIONS-THANKS
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  14. it is often said if it is one tape only, pay the professionals
    I respect the professionals but i will like to became one one sunny day ( so have to practice on my own )kidding, and do you know in which country do I live? "professionals" here know about the restoration as the fish about the bike so I'm master yoda for them
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  15. You must see this jagabo ? LS? others i think that tbc errors are gone ( well not gone but lot less visible )do you look at the edges of windows and i can see the same thing all over the video Am i right ?

    I am sleepy to render video i will definitely do it tomorrow and my sat program is recording to not interrupted but this attempt is trough this Dracula's Panasonic dmr e60 as passtrough and vcr tbc off https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/345149-Panasonic-DMR-e60-ep-no-progressive-out
    what kind of secret Russian machine has this guy sold me tonight I must have been drinking too much

    I couldn't help it left pana s-vhs on/off tbc - es15 es10 pass dnr on , right pana s-vhs pass e60 ( it also lights up the image it has some presets i couldn't find it again) dnr on. It is not well trimmed at all but im tired
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    Last edited by mammo1789; 7th Apr 2012 at 23:22.
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  16. Member 2Bdecided's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    The recording is from wiener Austria philharmonic orchestra on new years ( actually it always held on 1 of January) i was there 2 years latter and was phenomenal this recording is from tv.
    I never saw it on DVD ( from the 90 ties at least ) so I wanted to make it perfect
    ...but you know, it's almost the same concert every year , and they broadcast it in HD with 5.1 sound now! Free-to-air across most of Europe and beyond. Plenty of clips in YouTube (though I can't immediately find any that properly capture the full HD picture - mostly 576i upscaled to YouTube 720p).

    Cheers,
    David.
    Last edited by 2Bdecided; 16th Apr 2012 at 10:12.
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  17. Originally Posted by mammo1789 View Post
    You must see this jagabo ? LS? others i think that tbc errors are gone
    Yes, the new video has much less horizontal jitter. Almost gone. Congrats.
    Last edited by jagabo; 16th Apr 2012 at 13:18.
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  18. ...but you know, it's almost the same concert every year , and they broadcast it in HD with 5.1 sound now! Free-to-air across most of Europe and beyond. Plenty of clips in YouTube (though I can't immediately find any that properly capture the full HD picture - mostly 576i upscaled to YouTube 720p).
    Yes i know that, thanks, especially on German satellite channels and i watch it ( although you are right with times became very boring or I am getting old or they have to change something) but it was interesting to recover that old recording on dvd ( not that i will ever watch it again ) but to have it in the collection.
    O and 2Bdecided i know that allot of the youtube videos are ok and very high in quality but most of them are bull sh, especially from minor countries. Some years ago I was looking some concert of our very popular singer that died very young, and those on the internet ( the whole 2 whore made out of bad vhs tape I mean very bad and the transfer was even even worse ) lucky i find it on tape that someone was taping from tv, and made very good transfer to dvd even the sound was very good.

    Yes, the new video is much less horizontal jitter. Almost gone. Congrats.
    I tough that only es series ( es10, 15, 20 ) can do that, it seems that even older E series ( e60,e100) can have something similar if not the same and this was on the passtrough side not direct recording, i had similar test with e55 and i saw something on one tapes but not on others.
    It seems that passtrough frame sync/tbc on these dvd's work on particular tapes and not on others and sometimes even es10 or 15 which cannot do it like in this case ( e60 done it ), sometimes it's the other way around very interesting.
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