Best way to render an odd source for a bluray

[Jon.G]

I'm not sure if this belongs in the conversion category, but in a sense I'm trying to convert a source to a standard that will work with bluray.

The original source was super 8 movies, which play at 18fps. A nice even number, something that it seems the video industry hates, and insists on adding funky decimals to make everything more complicated.

So, since the movies couldn't be transferred to 18fps files, they were instead transferred to what I thought was 24fps files. Now that I'm digging those out and playing with them, I've found it's actually 23.976, because a nice even number like 24 would just be too simple.

Ok, no big deal, that's close, right?

Anyways, I was playing around in vegas pro 10, because I've found how I can set something to playback at a different speed without resampling. But I can't get it to do it exactly right. If I start a 18fps session, bring in a 23.976 file, set it to play at 0751, then I get the frames drifting from the speed it's playing, and when the thing gets right in between 2 frames it does this god awful ugly blending thing on the preview. Perhaps it will render better, but.....I'm trying to get this to line up exactly and get this thing setup so that my session can simply know, these are the frames, they play at 18fps, and then I can render them to....I dunno what.


Anyways, whatever, apparently I don't know what I'm doing when I'm trying to do these things, because what seems logical to me, like sticking to standards with even numbers, seems to be the opposite of what the reality is.


So, what's the best way to turn my source into a source ready for bluray authoring?


The files are mpeg-4 (QuickTime), and are 1248*702 16:9. Although the movie source is full frame, so there is black on the edges to fill out the wide screen.


What would you do with these files to prep them for bluray?

[yoda313]

I don't think that frame size will work for bluray. Though I haven't made an official bluray as i don't have a bluray burner but here are the specs you need to conform to:

https://www.videohelp.com/hd

MPEG2 - MP@HL and MP@ML
AVC/H264 - MPEG-4 AVC: HP@4.1/4.0 and MP@4.1/4.0/3.2/3.1/3.0
VC-1 - AP@L3 and AP@L2

High Definition Video (frame size x frame rate x interlaced or progressive) (frame aspect ratio)
1920x1080x29.97i, 25i (16:9)
1920x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1440x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1280x720x59.94p, 50p (16:9)
1280x720x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
Standard Definition Video
720x480x59.94i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50i (4:3/16:9)

40 Mbit/s

Dolby Digital up to 5.1 channels (Max 640 Kbit/s)
Dolby Digital Plus up to 7.1 channels (Max 4.736Mbit/s)
Dolby Lossless up to 9 channels (Max 18.64Mbit/s)
DTS up to 5.1 channels (Max 1.524Mbit/s)
DTS HD up to 9 channels (Max 24.5Mbit/s)
Linear PCM up to 9 channels (Max 27.648Mbit/s)

-------------------------

Hit those standards and you should be ok.

If you want 720p this looks to be your best bet:

1280x720x24p, 23.976p (16:9)

That frame size you posted doesn't match but that is where 23.976 comes from for this purpose - it is valid.

[Jon.G]

Yeah, ok, so I need to end up in a bluray compatible standard, and that may be the best....but that doesn't really answer my question.

How do I take a 23.976 file that is playing an 18fps source, so it is playing it fast, and slow it down and render it to a format that is bluray compatible? What is the best way to do this?

[poisondeathray]

If you play the MOV in a media player like VLC, MPCHC, is it in sync ?

What does mediainfo (view=>text) say about the MOV ?

Actually both 24.0 and 23.976 are supported by blu-ray - but it doesn't really help you because there is no "perfect" way of going from 18fps content to 23.976, 24, 25 or 29.97

The basic approaches/options are : duplicate frames, blended frames, motion interpolated frames or some comination of those, or pulldown techniques . They all have pros/cons and have been discussed in other threads . There is no "best" . The reason is you have to make up those extra frames to 24 (or 23.976) . So you either get blurry, choppy, blurry and choppy , or artifact ridden frames . You chose.

It sounds like you're currently using blends. If you want to use duplicates, you can "disable resample" in vegas. You might like that better than the "ugly blends". Optical flow/interpolation methods are not available in vegas without 3rd party plugins like twixtor

[Jon.G]

If I play the movie, it plays fast. It is a frame by frame movie of the film, the frames are right, so it plays fast.

General
Complete name : M:\Home Movies\Home Movies\Super8_Uncomp2\A01-UNCOMP2.mov
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : QuickTime
Codec ID : qt
File size : 8.42 GiB
Duration : 2mn 31s
Overall bit rate : 477 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 19:34:47
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:52
Writing library : Apple QuickTime
Media/UUID : B0CCEA69-5024-481E-8425-AE137D1DCE54

Video
ID : 1
Format : YUV
Codec ID : v210
Codec ID/Hint : AJA Video Systems Xena
Duration : 2mn 31s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 477 Mbps
Width : 1 248 pixels
Original width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 702 pixels
Original height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:2
Bit depth : 10 bits
Compression mode : Lossless
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 22.722
Stream size : 8.42 GiB (100%)
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 19:34:47
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Other
ID : 2
Type : Time code
Format : QuickTime TC
Duration : 2mn 31s
Time code of first frame : 01:00:00:00
Time code settings : Striped
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51
Tagged date : UTC 2011-08-03 20:05:51


Perhaps bluray isn't the way to go. Is there a way I can format this into something that plays 18fps?

[poisondeathray]

If I play the movie, it plays fast. It is a frame by frame movie of the film, the frames are right, so it plays fast.


Perhaps bluray isn't the way to go. Is there a way I can format this into something that plays 18fps?

So is it a 1:1 transfer ? But just sped up to 23.976 ? Is the audio "fast" as well ?

Or is it 18fps with duplicates or blends inserted to make up 23.976

Double check to see there are not duplicates or blends

Perhaps bluray isn't the way to go. Is there a way I can format this into something that plays 18fps?

You can slow it down to 18fps, but "standard" media like BD, DVD won't accept it natively. You can add pulldown to make it compatible, but the net effect will be adding duplicates (some frames are displayed longer than others, thus "choppy" playback) . If it's a 1:1 file transfer you can just make a file to playback on the computer , or a media box at 18fps 1:1 frames.

(It's another topic, but but most LCD/LED's/plasma's/ modern displays won't display at 18fps or a multiple of 18fps either - usually they will be 50Hz or 60Hz, so you will still get a discrepancy in frame display times)

[Jon.G]

It's a 1:1, and it's silent.

[poisondeathray]

I would see if you can tolerate duplicates at 24p (disable resample in vegas) , instead of blends. If you can, then BD is still an option

If not just render out a file at 18fps for computer playback (but 18fps is still choppy regardless, and depending on your display setup , you will still get a judder as some frames are displayed longer than others, unless it's running at a multiple of 18Hz)

[Jon.G]

I'm not sure how to do that though. Right now the file is set so that it plays fast, how do I, for starters, get this at the right speed? And then how do I set it to render with duplicates at 24 instead of blending?

[manono]

... how do I, for starters, get this at the right speed? And then how do I set it to render with duplicates at 24 instead of blending?

In AviSynth-speak:

AssumeFPS(18)
ChangeFPS(24)

In Vegas? Don't know, don't care.

[racer-x]

I'm not sure how to do that though. Right now the file is set so that it plays fast, how do I, for starters, get this at the right speed? And then how do I set it to render with duplicates at 24 instead of blending?

Open a new project in Vegas set at 1280x720 @ 24 fps. Import your mov clip into the timeline. Right-Click on Clip and select Properties. Make sure Disable Resample is ticked and set playback rate to 0.75 like shown below:

When you click OK, you should see a squiggly line on the clip indicating it was time compressed. You'll need to stretch it back out to full length by dragging the right edge.......