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  1. Pioneer DVR-630 is a multi-system DVD recorder. You can record in Standard PAL, PAL-60, SECAM, or NTSC. You can also play video content on a NTSC, PAL or a SECAM television, as well as NTSC content on a PAL television

    Just thought I'd raise this possibility and if anyone has any experience, Pioneer dvd recorders seem to be the only ones. ?
    PAL/NTSC problem solver.
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    I can't see the point. What's the use of recording in PAL if you live in a broadcast area that transmits NTSC? The major problem in playing PAL in an NTSC area isn't the recorder, it's the TV that can only display native NTSC and will go B&W and roll the picture if you feed it the wrong signal.
    So it'll record in PAL/SECAM, and you won't be able to watch it?
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    The old Philips recorders recorded in both NTSC and PAL....but as in the case of my NTSC version....it will only record a PAL signal via RCA or S-Video since it has an NTSC tuner.
    Oh....and it will only record a TRUE NTSC or PAL signal....not a quasi signal.
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  4. sorry I think the end user thats in mind is someone who has a pal vcr, that has some ntsc tapes, which would output as pal 60 from a pal vcr, this recorder then lets you record that onto a dvd , which a dvd player could then show on a pal TV, it saves the holder of the ntsc vhs tapes getting a true ntsc vcr.
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    There's no such thing as SECAM or PAL-60 in the DVD world, so any claim that a DVD recorder "records" such signals is very misleading. What it probably means is that it records them, but it converts them to normal PAL for DVD burning.
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  6. so any dvd player that converts ntsc to pal, does so in true pal?,,thats very interesting.
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  7. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by victoriabears
    sorry I think the end user thats in mind is someone who has a pal vcr, that has some ntsc tapes, which would output as pal 60 from a pal vcr, this recorder then lets you record that onto a dvd , which a dvd player could then show on a pal TV, it saves the holder of the ntsc vhs tapes getting a true ntsc vcr.
    Unless you own one of these recorders I would not "bet the farm" that it will record a quasi signal. The specs mention nothing of the sort.
    http://www.220-electronics.com/dvdrecorders/pioneer630.htm

    It DOES mention two tuners....which is very cool....and dual power...also very handy indeed.
    This Pioneer also not NOT have a built-in converter (PAL to NTSC and vise versa).
    Important Note: This DVD recorder does not have a built in video signal converter! This means that you will be able to play PAL discs on a PAL TV, and NTSC Discs on a NTSC TV.
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    I see - but any PAL land DVD or even VCR will output proper NTSC (my 5 year old Hitachi VCR outputs NTSC, not the bastardised PAL60 signal) and any fairly recent TV will display it properly. This machine looks cutting edge for 3 years ago.
    It looks to me like a standard PAL land DVR being sold as something new to people locked into NTSC only land - except Pioneer UK machines won't play avi's (Pioneer - "You're the 374th person today to call us about DivX playback - and like we told all the others, THERE'S NO DEMAND FOR IT!!!")
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  9. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBeee
    I see - but any PAL land DVD or even VCR will output proper NTSC (my 5 year old Hitachi VCR outputs NTSC, not the bastardised PAL60 signal) and any fairly recent TV will display it properly.
    Neither of my PAL VCR's I have here will output an NTSC VHS tape as true NTSC...I always get a quasi signal that I cannot record. One of my VCR's is a very nice (but somewhat old) Philips S-VHS Match III Line.
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    Originally Posted by hech54
    Originally Posted by KBeee
    I see - but any PAL land DVD or even VCR will output proper NTSC (my 5 year old Hitachi VCR outputs NTSC, not the bastardised PAL60 signal) and any fairly recent TV will display it properly.
    Neither of my PAL VCR's I have here will output an NTSC VHS tape as true NTSC...I always get a quasi signal that I cannot record. One of my VCR's is a very nice (but somewhat old) Philips S-VHS Match III Line.
    You might well be right - all I can go on (because I don't record from my VCR) is my old plasma TV which tells me NTSC 60hz , same as if I put a US DVD in my DVD player.
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  11. For whatever reason the DVD recorder mfrs apparently all colluded in a decision to NOT make machines that would perform internal standards conversion, like some of the old multi-standard VCRs once did. When using VHS, the easiest way out of this fix is to buy one of the little external standards conversion "black boxes". They almost always work, the newer ones seem to have every standard covered, and they get cheaper every year. You could use one to convert in either direction, NTSC or PAL, between any hardware, VHS or DVD.

    Mostly its our leftover VHS tapes that give us problems: of course with DVDs, many many players and even some recorders will perform a perfect on-the-fly playback conversion (my 2004 JVC DRMV5s plays PAL dvds flawlessly on my NTSC television: sometimes I double-check the disc to be sure what format it is. I've made near-perfect NTSC backup discs simply by connecting another recorder to my JVCs analog outputs.)
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    Originally Posted by jman98
    There's no such thing as SECAM or PAL-60 in the DVD world, so any claim that a DVD recorder "records" such signals is very misleading. What it probably means is that it records them, but it converts them to normal PAL for DVD burning.
    No, it should record a PAL60 input signal as a true NTSC DVD.
    I played some time ago with a Philips (PAL) DVD recorder which just did that.
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  13. Knowing that this dvd recorder can also record secam is worth it in my opinion because as some may (or not ) know the pal signal, for an optimum result use a "delay line" borrowed from secam hence the labelling "pal deluxe" back in the days.
    So, for the average joe what does that mean?
    This dvd recorder has cirtuitry the which can decode secam signals and because of that, it probably is worth buying.

    I can't prove it though

    I quote:

    Because SECAM transmits only one color at a time, it is free of the color artifacts present in NTSC and PAL resulting from the combined transmission of both signals.
    This means that the vertical color resolution is halved relative to NTSC. It is however not halved compared to PAL. Although PAL does not eliminate half of vertical color information during encoding, it combines color information from adjacent lines at the decoding stage in order to compensate for "color sub carrier phase errors" occurring during the transmission of the Amplitude-Modulated color sub carrier. This is normally done using a delay line borrowed from SECAM (the result is called PAL DL or PAL Delay-Line, sometimes interpreted as DeLuxe), but can be accomplished "visually" in cheap TV sets (PAL standard). Because the FM modulation of SECAM's color sub carrier is insensitive to phase (or amplitude) errors, phase errors do not cause loss of color saturation in SECAM, although they do in PAL. In NTSC, such errors cause color shifts.



    and a lil bit of history:

    Unlike some other manufacturers, the company where SECAM was invented, Thomson, still sells TV sets worldwide under different brands; this may be due in part to the legacy of SECAM. Thomson bought the company that developed PAL, Telefunken, and today even co-owns the RCA brand —RCA being the creator of NTSC. Thomson also co-authored the ATSC standard which is used for American high-definition TV.

    Source: wikipedia

    Like i said in another thread, i got a pal/secam/mesecam/pal60 high end french s-vhs vcr and the colors for ntsc videos are just fine.Though they need some fine tuning at times but that's certainly because of the age of the vhs rather than the quality of the decoding.


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    Originally Posted by The_Doman
    Originally Posted by jman98
    There's no such thing as SECAM or PAL-60 in the DVD world, so any claim that a DVD recorder "records" such signals is very misleading. What it probably means is that it records them, but it converts them to normal PAL for DVD burning.
    No, it should record a PAL60 input signal as a true NTSC DVD.
    I played some time ago with a Philips (PAL) DVD recorder which just did that.
    That makes perfect sense that such a recorder would record PAL 60 as NTSC. I can't believe I didn't realize that when I posted as a conversion from PAL 60 to PAL would be a lot harder than a conversion to NTSC. Thanks for correcting me. I stand by my SECAM input becomes PAL DVD statement though.
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    I love that French nationalistic SECAM propaganda you've cut-and-pasted from wikipedia. I don't think SECAM was quite as great as portrayed - it's use was more for political reasons.

    Funny how most French digital STBs output PAL (actually RGB, but PAL composite is an option), and in the old days many SECAM broadcasts were transcoded from PAL because you can't cross-fade a SECAM signal, so studios had to use PAL!

    Anyway, you're hope that SECAM decoding means better circuitry is probably misplaced. IIRC those kind of delay lines are already included as standard on all but the worst recorders, to facilitate comb filtering on NTSC. I don't know if this makes any difference for PAL or not.

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  16. Just wanted to update this thread, I have a pioneer 650H multi system dvd recorder and have just connected a uk vcr playing a ntsc vhs to it and set the input to pal 60 and 525 lines and it created a dvd which gspot reports as per attached file, the bitrate is high because I used xp, it played fine on my Pioneer 420V dvd player, is this a true ntsc dvd and if so that is very helpful to those in the UK who need to capture ntsc vhs. The picture quality is superb by the way. Very nice machine, lots of inputs and options.

    Obviously these dvd recorders are getting rare and pricey:=

    [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Colville/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-250GB-PIONEER-1080p-Region-Code-Free-DVD-Recorder_W0QQitemZ230436486558QQcmdZViewItemQQptZD VD_Players_Recorders?hash=item35a715bd9e

    http://www.jr.com/pioneer/pe/PIO_DVR560HS_hy_BS/
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    Just found that a Goodmans GDVD303R will take a real NTSC signal on its input, and record a real PAL disc from it.

    This isn't a recommendation - it's a lousy DVD recorder - but it shows it can be done.

    Haven't tried it with PAL60 - I don't think I have any sources for that.

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    Haven't tried it with PAL60 - I don't think I have any sources for that.
    If you have a Pal Sony MiniDV camcorder print to tape a NTSC DV file and then play the tape with output settings from Sony camcorder set as "NTSC playback = On Pal TV.
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    Originally Posted by danno78 View Post
    Haven't tried it with PAL60 - I don't think I have any sources for that.
    If you have a Pal Sony MiniDV camcorder print to tape a NTSC DV file and then play the tape with output settings from Sony camcorder set as "NTSC playback = On Pal TV.
    I've never seen a PAL Sony MiniDV consumer model that will accept an NTSC DV file input. Some higher models would play an NTSC DV tape to the LCD but not output an NTSC signal.
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    I just ckecked and you`re right, don`t accept NTSC file. But, Pal Sony MiniDv camcorders will play NTSC tape as PAL60. I thought that if they play NTSC tapes will also record.
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  21. Can Philips VCR that outputs NTSC tape in PAL 60 also record PAL 60 signal into ordinary PAL signal on a cassette?
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  22. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lucky Starr View Post
    Can Philips VCR that outputs NTSC tape in PAL 60 also record PAL 60 signal into ordinary PAL signal on a cassette?
    Already answered....NO.
    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/335341-EP-VHS-video-capture?p=2081402&viewfull=1#post2081402
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  23. ok sorry I thought that was for the other video. I promise I probably won't ask any questions anymore.
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    I'm in the same boat as you. I have a few NTSC tapes here in Europe that I can do NOTHING with....and I've been doing this for quite some time now. I've lived in "NTSC-Land" and now live here in "PAL-Land"....capturing or copying an NTSC tape "over here" is very very very difficult.
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  25. OK, although I meant Panasonic VCR and not Philips. But isn't there any VCR that can record PAL 60?
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  26. i am baffled, you want to copy a ntsc vhs using a vcr that can take a pal 60 and do what with it?

    Create a pal vhs presumably?

    Information for you:-

    The Philips 3570H UK DVD recorder take a pal 60 signal and creates a NTSC DVD, other Philips models may do so. I have one and have done it.

    The Panasonic ES45V dvd/vhs combo is menu switchable pal/ntsc , again other UK/Europe Panasonic machines may do so as well. I have owned one and done it

    The Pansonic es10 dvd recorder will record pal or ntsc , menu switchable, I have owned one and done it, but i do not know if it takes PAL 60.

    If you want to send me the tapes in Canada I will convert them free for you.

    Hurry up as I have finished my VHS project, after 7 years, and I am selling my gear on ebay.
    Last edited by victoriabears; 28th May 2011 at 14:47.
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  27. Member hech54's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lucky Starr View Post
    OK, although I meant Panasonic VCR and not Philips. But isn't there any VCR that can record PAL 60?
    There is virtually nothing you can do with that tape besides watch it....period. I've been a member here since 2001 through both NTSC and now PAL(7 years living in PAL Land)....trust me....you are 95% screwed. You have very very few options and many of them are hearsay.
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    Originally Posted by hech54 View Post
    I'm in the same boat as you. I have a few NTSC tapes here in Europe that I can do NOTHING with....and I've been doing this for quite some time now. I've lived in "NTSC-Land" and now live here in "PAL-Land"....capturing or copying an NTSC tape "over here" is very very very difficult.
    It's not that difficult. You need a (decent?) VCR from the USA, a 110V transformer, and a capture card that accepts NTSC (i.e. almost any!).

    It's not that hard to import equipment if you really want to.

    Cheers,
    David.
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  29. Nothing here please erase.
    Last edited by Lucky Starr; 26th Jul 2014 at 03:44.
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  30. I have a chance to buy Pioneer DVR-230S or PHILIPS R3355 - does anyone know if they recorde PAL60?
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