VideoHelp Forum
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 27 of 27
Thread
  1. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    Aloha,

    When I got married, we hired a videographer. Part of our agreement was that they provide us recordings of all the footage, in addition to our highlights tape. They gave me two tapes. I have had the tapes for years without ever playing them. I was told that they are S-VHS tapes, but they look like regular tapes to me. How do I tell the difference?

    Thanks,
    Thad
    Quote Quote  
  2. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Yank in Europe
    Search PM
    The label might tell you but even then there are no guarantees. Don't worry about VHS or S-VHS, it only matters slightly if you plan on capturing it to a computer for editing and/or restoration.
    Quote Quote  
  3. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    That's exactly what I want to do!
    Quote Quote  
  4. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Yank in Europe
    Search PM
    Well if you already have a VHS deck, you will need to use the composite out (yellow RCA connector) and the two audio out(red and white RCA connectors) to your capture device.
    With an S-VHS deck you can (probably) use the S-Video out instead of the yellow RCA, and you will still need to use the red and white RCA's for audio since S-Video does not carry any audio.
    Quote Quote  
  5. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks for the replies. I want to get the best quality I can out of the tapes. If they are S-VHS tapes, then I want to buy a VCR that will play the S-VHS tapes in the proper mode. But now I'm thinking that what the video production company told me (that the tapes are S-VHS) might not be true. Is there a way to tell just by looking at the tapes?
    Quote Quote  
  6. Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Lyon France
    Search Comp PM
    Many rather recent VHS Vcr can also play S-VHS tapes .Quality is rather good when you do that (better than regular VHS),
    but it will be better if you use a genuine S-VHS player.S-VHS VCR Can output S-VIDEO signal (wich is better even for regular VHS tapes)
    but regular VHS players usually cannot.
    Quote Quote  
  7. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Yank in Europe
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by HawaiiThad View Post
    Is there a way to tell just by looking at the tapes?
    No. And who is to say that this guy could have simply bought tapes marked "S-VHS" and never used any type of S-VHS equipment during the process?
    Getting a good VCR is the key. Many of them just happen to be S-VHS simply because those were the last ones to be produced. You can easily spend $300 on a quality S-VHS machine, but what I'm trying to get at is that many people(including misermidas) could not tell the difference between one or the other.
    My S-VHS machine died a few months ago....and now I'm using a standard Panasonic VHS machine and getting VERY nice captures....but I'm using European SCART connections. SCART vs. S-Video....which is better?....many Europeans choose S-Video over SCART for convenience....S-Video is a smaller, less cumbersome connection. Better picture quality?....I don't see it.
    Quote Quote  
  8. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis MN
    Search Comp PM
    Generally a S-VHS tape will have a hole in a particular place on the bottom of the tape(with the tape upside down and the writing part towards you the hole will be on the left side edge about 1" up from the writing part.
    The reason I said "generally" is because some recording decks could record S-VHS even onto regular VHS tapes without that identifying hole, but if it has the hole you know for sure it's a SVHS tape. Another way to tell is to play the tape on a old VCR you know is NOT S-VHS or Quasi S-VHS playback compatible. If it's S-VHS your picture will be unwatchable. Generally if the deck is Quasi S-VHS compatible it will say so on the front tape lid, where you insert the tape.
    Last edited by jjeff; 25th May 2012 at 13:40. Reason: changed hold to hole
    Quote Quote  
  9. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    The HOLE (not hold) mentioned in the previous post is an indicator for the deck to know the difference between the 2 different kinds of tapes (and YES, they are quite different in terms of tape formulation).

    However, there are complications:
    If you put a S-VHS tape into a VHS deck, it will not know or care about some extra hole and will assume the tape is VHS, and so will record VHS onto the tape (even though the tape is S-VHS). This is a cause of a lot of the confusion regarding whether VHS decks can play S-VHS material.
    Yes, they can play the tape, but if the material recorded onto it is REALLY S-VHS there can quite often be problems, hech54's luck notwithstanding.
    This is because S-VHS records both more lines of resolution than standard VHS, but also (and more importantly) S-VHS records the color info in a different (and wider) frequency band than normal VHS. What this does to a VHS playback machine shows up as streaks, blooming, etc - an "overburned" look (for lack of a better term at the moment).
    You MIGHT luck out and get a "modern" VHS deck that can handle S-VHS tapes, but I would NOT count on it. There is no reason for manufacturers to add the extra circuitry needed to accommodate the extra bandwidth. So, I would say, unless the deck ADVERTISES S-VHS compatability, you should assume it can't correctly handle it.
    Now, you know what happens when a VHS recorder uses an S-VHS tape, but S-VHS recorders (and cameras) are set to AUTOMATICALLY FORCE the recording to be S-VHS when using an S-VHS tape, and to use VHS recording when using a VHS tape.
    Further confoundng the situation (though not in this case) is when somebody is a cheapskate and tries to use regular VHS tapes as S-VHS by poking a hole in the case (to match the expected S-format hole). Yes, this will fool the deck(s), but as mentioned before, the tape formulation is not up to handling the full S-VHS signal, so you get degraded quality. Not worth it for a few dollars difference, especially if it's footage of someone's special moments.
    True S-VHS tapes say so on the flap that covers the tape path.

    What should you do?
    If you you've only got just a few tapes, I would NOT recommend using either your own VHS deck, nor getting an S-VHS deck for this single purpose.
    I'd go to a professional transfer house and explain how you want it transferred: using a TRUE S-VHS (or D-VHS because they can handle all 3 kinds) deck to PC files either via DV or via uncompress/losslessly compressed YUV422, in the file format of YOUR choice (AVI or MOV or MKV, most likely). Don't be stuck with anything less - no MPEG2/DVD, no h.264 or Flash. You want something that is high quality and editable. DV, while not the HIGHEST QUALITY, is still equal or better than S-VHS, and Uncomp/Lossless is even better.

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis MN
    Search Comp PM
    Yes you are correct, people can and do either drill the hole even though the tape inside is just regular VHS tape and I suppose someone could also put just regular VHS tape in a shell meant for SVHS.
    As the the OPs original question as to whether his tapes are SVHS or just regular VHS, the easiest way to tell is to play them on a regular VCR, and one thats not Quasi SVHS playback compatible. Doing this you'll know for sure if they were actually recorded in SVHS or just regular VHS
    Quote Quote  
  11. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Yank in Europe
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
    As the the OPs original question as to whether his tapes are SVHS or just regular VHS, the easiest way to tell is to play them on a regular VCR, and one thats not Quasi SVHS playback compatible.
    And what is he going to see? SVHS tapes play in VHS machines - VHS tapes play in SVHS machines.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Freedonia
    Search Comp PM
    HawaiiThad - Exactly how many times have you in the past captured video tapes to your PC and edited them? I admire your willingness to take this on, but I have the feeling that you're about 99% enthusiasm and 1% experience here and I'd suggest that maybe being all gung ho and buying a special VCR to do this is maybe not the best idea you've had. You could just pay a video shop to do the job for you. One of our longtime members, lordsmurf, has his own shop that does this kind of thing. Contact him for details. Not only will this be cheaper and quicker for you but it's hard for me to believe that you could do a better job. If you were really some kind of expert, you wouldn't be here asking questions like this. You'd be out doing it. I'm sure Hawaii has shops that can do this too for you for much less money and time then you are proposing by doing it yourself.
    Quote Quote  
  13. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
    Yes you are correct, people can and do either drill the hole even though the tape inside is just regular VHS tape and I suppose someone could also put just regular VHS tape in a shell meant for SVHS.
    As the the OPs original question as to whether his tapes are SVHS or just regular VHS, the easiest way to tell is to play them on a regular VCR, and one thats not Quasi SVHS playback compatible. Doing this you'll know for sure if they were actually recorded in SVHS or just regular VHS
    No, one of the points I was trying to make earlier was that one doesn't truly know what's on there without additional equipment such as a WaveformMonitor/Vectorscope (attached to the appropriate outputs). If you look at a tape that has S-VHS recorded material but was shot with low contrast, desaturated color in one shot and high contrast, saturated color in another, many VHS decks might show you something passable for for the 1st shot and then freak out at the 2nd shot which utililizes much of that higher bandwidth I was talking about. If you only do a test on that 1st shot (because it's nearer the beginning of the tape), you are fooling yourself into thinking "This plain jain VHS deck works OK" or maybe "well I guess this stuff was just VHS material after all". Both of which would be VERY WRONG.

    (I speak from experience of having produced and transferred HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS of hours of material for both myself and clients's VHS + S-VHS material.)

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  14. Member edDV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern California, USA
    Search Comp PM
    Use a quality dub service. Much cheaper than buying all the necessary equipment.
    Recommends: Kiva.org - Loans that change lives.
    http://www.kiva.org/about
    Quote Quote  
  15. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks for all the replies!

    Back in the late '90s I was the lead singer for a band. I recorded all (well, almost all) of our shows. They are all on VHS tapes. I have about 100 shows that I now want to convert to digital. I have done three shows so far. You can find them on my YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/hawaiithad/videos?view=1). Quality is not great, but the source is 15 year old VHS tapes, so it's not gonna look hi-def. I do get that. Yinz can judge if you think I am getting enough quality from my tapes/set-up or if I can do better.

    I have an iMac. It's the newest model. And I have Final Cut Pro. Those above who suggested I take my wedding video and have it professionally transferred make a good point, but with a project of this size, it makes sense to do it myself. Besides, I am really enjoying seeing all the stuff that happened at our shows which I would miss if someone else edited it. Transferring the wedding video is just one more little thing that I want to do.

    My old VCR does an OK job of playing back the video, but I was thinking that a VCR with an s-video connection would produce a better picture. I seem to recall having an old piece of equipment that used s-video connections and that device having a much better picture quality when I used the s-video connection vs. the composite connection, so that's what got me thinking about upgrading my VCR. That led me to thinking that I might as well get something that can handle my wedding tapes.

    I have a DVMC-DA1 from Sony for converting the analog signal to video, but I've learned that it doesn't have audio-lock. Sometimes, when I import an hour-long set, the audio ends up off by 2 seconds or so by the end of the show. I am leaning toward upgrading to a Canopus ADVC110 which I undertand does have audio-lock.

    So that's my situation. I'm a very experienced Mac guy and very technically inclined, but I have minimal experience working with video.
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member hech54's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Yank in Europe
    Search PM
    Originally Posted by HawaiiThad View Post
    Yinz can judge if you think I am getting enough quality from my tapes/set-up or if I can do better.
    You are a Pittsburgher?
    Quote Quote  
  17. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    (For those who aren't steeped in Americanisms, "Yinz" = you'ens = you ones = you guys = you'ze guys = you'ze = you all = y'all. That's 2nd person plural to everyone else.)



    ******************

    Back on topic, with that extra info in mind, what I think you should do is:
    1. Buy a very good quality, used S-VHS deck (with line TBC capability)
    2. Buy a good quality full-frame TBC
    3. Buy an ADVC-110 (or similar)
    4. Use a reasonably speedy PC (from last ~4-6 years), and
    A)
    5. Buy a Firewire port card (PCI or PCI-e, TI chipset)
    6. Capture in WinDV as DV and edit in your NLE of choice, or
    B)
    7. Buy a decent recent Hauppage or Radeon capture card
    8. Capture Losslessly compressed (Lags, HuffYUV) as AVI, using capture software and editing software of choice
    Then,
    9. Process/clean up using AVISynth + Virtualdub
    10. Save edited file in Archive format (DV, LosslessCompr) and convert to h.264 copy in MP4/MKV container for playout in media player(s).
    11. Enjoy!

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  18. Yes, you need an s-vhs deck with a line TBC. That will get rid of most of the horizontal jitter, resulting in much cleaner DVD encodes.

    https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/306272-Computer-video-capture-vs-vcr-to-dvd-combo?p...=1#post1882662

    Notice how the vertical line on the left is crooked and wiggles left and right. After a line TBC the line is straighter and much more still.

    And keeping luma and chroma separate (s-video) will eliminate dot crawl artifacts.
    Last edited by jagabo; 26th May 2012 at 09:02.
    Quote Quote  
  19. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    **off-topic**
    Let's go dahntahn to da Stiller game, n'at. I'll buy yinz an Arn! Yep, I'm a Pittsburgher, married one too, but we live in Hawaii now.

    **back on topic**
    Scott, I agree with your steps 1-3 above, but I'm a Mac guy with a fairly new (less than 1 year old) computer and no desire to replace it so your steps 4-10 don't fit my plans, but I have FCP and iMovie so I believe the steps can be translated into equivalent Mac steps and the whole capture/edit process *should* go OK. I'm skipping the whole Mac vs. PC debate here.

    I will be sure to execute your step 11.

    The terms line TBC and full-frame TBC are new to me. I'm guessing from the conversation here and from a little google foo that line TBC is a feature that some VCRs have and some don't, so is this a feature I should be looking for while shopping for my replacement VCR? And then what is a good quality full-frame TBC as mentioned in step 2 above?
    Quote Quote  
  20. Read up on TBCs:

    http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/video-restore/2251-tbc-time-base.html

    A good full-frame TBC would be one like the AVToolbox AVT-8710. And yes, you most definitely want either a VCR with a line TBC, or perhaps a DVD recorder with one you can stick in the path. Then it would go, VCR (no TBC)->DVD recorder (used as passthrough)->Frame TBC (if needed)->Computer capture card.

    Greetings from Kona on the Big Island.
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Deep in the Heart of Texas
    Search PM
    Does your mac have firewire 400, 800 ports, or neither? If 400, you are good, if 800, you will probably need an adapter - see recent threads about this very problem. If neither, you still need a card.

    If you can dualboot, you could still do what I suggested, otherwise Fcp should be fine.

    So, do you live where the humahumanukunukuapua'a go swimming by?

    Scott
    Quote Quote  
  22. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis MN
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    (For those who aren't steeped in Americanisms, "Yinz" = you'ens = you ones = you guys = you'ze guys = you'ze = you all = y'all. That's 2nd person plural to everyone else.)



    ******************

    Scott
    Thanks for the explanation, I just thought it was a typo by HawaiiThad
    Quote Quote  
  23. Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    So, do you live where the humahumanukunukuapua'a go swimming by?
    Me? Yes, just a few miles away from the place about which the song was written (the little grass shack in Kealakekua, Hawaii).
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Makakilo, HI
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks for all the info and fun discussion. I got a Canopus ADVC-100 and a Panasonic AG-1980 from eBay. They're both on their way here. I'm still looking for a good and inexpensive full-frame TBC. The Datavideo TBC-1000 was going for $95 on eBay a couple of weeks ago, but now there is only one and it's $460!
    Quote Quote  
  25. Originally Posted by HawaiiThad View Post
    I got a Canopus ADVC-100 and a Panasonic AG-1980 from eBay. They're both on their way here. I'm still looking for a good and inexpensive full-frame TBC. The Datavideo TBC-1000 was going for $95 on eBay a couple of weeks ago, but now there is only one and it's $460!
    My setup (working with mostly PAL tapes) is similar. A Panasonic NV-HS860 with separate line TBC and DNR, an ADVC-300, and an AVT-8710 as a full frame TBC. It's cheaper than the DataVideo box new and maybe you can find one for a decent price on eBay. Get one new here:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=276891&Q=&is=REG&A=details

    There are several available on eBay, but not at much of a discount:

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=AVT-8710&_sacat=0
    Quote Quote  
  26. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    dFAQ.us/lordsmurf
    Search Comp PM
    You'd do better to let a service transfer two tapes.
    Buying lots of hardware, learning something for one-time use, etc -- it's a bit much.

    Plus you'd never do as well at is as a good service.
    Want my help? Ask here! (not via PM!)
    FAQs: Best Blank DiscsBest TBCsBest VCRs for captureRestore VHS
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads

Visit our sponsor! Try DVDFab and backup Blu-rays!