Clue DVD Help

[Elrond]

Hi! I'm new here and registered to ask a question which will reveal how much of a newbie I am on anything tech related...

I have a favourite game that was published in 2005 from Hasbro: Clue DVD (Cluedo DVD). It included 10 special cases complete with unique set up instructions, video hints, events, etc. that happen throughout each case. It's quite a fun game.

The odd thing that we've discovered is that there are complete video files for 2 additional cases NOT available from the main menu... These video files are included in .VOB files - some of them are alongside other data used elsewhere (for example, all of the set up instructions for all 12 cases are included in 1 .vob file). There are also unused .ifo and .bup files apparently connected to these hidden .vob files.

So a normal case looks like this:
1) You insert the DVD and it plays the normal opening material, then proceeds to the Title Menu with links to 10 cases.
2) You click on one of the 10 cases
3) It leads you into the unique set up directions for that case
4) It plays a unique intro clip (all of the intro clips are contained on 1 .vob file)
5) It then transitions to the individual case's menu (is this perhaps called Root Menu?) which has some options which only become available after certain amounts of time.
6) Occasionally, the "inspector" will ask to see you to provide a clue.
7) You may "summon the butler" which accesses unique hints to the case. These are all stored on separate .vob files for each case (so there are 12 .vob files, each containing the main menu and the video files unique to each case).

So all of the raw video files are there for these 2 extra cases - but the trouble is, how do I get them to PLAY with the correct timers, sequence, etc. (like the other 10 cases). I've tried looking for "easter eggs" on the main menu, but no success...

Any hints would be greatly appreciated! I don't even really know how to explain what I'm asking but I'll be happy to try to explain further!

[jagabo]

Try using a software player like VLC to "play" the IFO files.

[Elrond]

I did that on my wife's mac... no matter which .ifo file I play, it always just goes to the main menu. I've even tried the .ifo files for the cases that I know work and it does the same thing.... :/

[DB83]

How did you 'discover' there were two additional cases ?


What you appear to describe is a conditional sequence where certain information is only shown when the conditions allow such as a bonus for solving the other cases . But if you just play the vob files you should still be able to see the additional cases. They might not appear at the start of the vob with them being chapters within.


I played Cluedo when I was quite young. And it was always Col. Mustard with a candlestick

[Elrond]

That sounds right. I can play the .vob files and even convert them to mp4 files, but the problem when you do that is that it just plays everything as a straight stream. For example, if I select Case #1 using a DVD player or DVD software, it utilizes at least 5 different .vob files at some point throughout the game including 2 that are unique to that case and 3 that are shared among all the other cases. I can access all of the clues and hints and even set-up files by opening .vob files in VLC, but they aren't "playable" - meaning they don't play at the right times or in response to my correct selections. Does that make sense?

We just discovered it by opening .vob files on the DVD and realizing that there are a lot of unused clips, including 2 entire .vob files with the menus, hints, etc. for the missing cases.

[Elrond]

I don't know if this is allowed, so let me know it's not...

Apparently someone (not me) has uploaded all of the .vob files to youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmjua4ctKXQ&list=PLZ4d7gfugWKgomfEmFhL6oFu8SJf92GkG

You can see if you just used the .vob file without the DVD programming, it wouldn't make much sense. Here's the .vob file for one of the missing cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMVq3BhRAAg&list=PLZ4d7gfugWKgomfEmFhL6oFu8SJf92GkG&index=15

The first few minutes are the menu, then it transitions to Inspector clues, then Secret Passage prompts, then the Butler clues. In the real game, all of these would be used interspersed based on the players' actions.

[DB83]

It does make sense. Some years ago I was known in trading circles for preparing dvds of a certain rock band. The dvds I traded got more sophisticated as I learnt video editing and dvd authoring.


My final dvd, which I did not trade (since a commercial disk came available) had a 'juke-box' where you made your selections and only the particular video played or a chosen sequence of videos. But view the vob and the videos appeared in a different order.


So what you have are dvd commands that jump to a particular sequence when the conditions are met. And by jumping to that sequence invokes more commands that only react to the the current sequence.


Bottom line is that they can only be played as intended within the actual game.


Before dvd were 'invented' I can recall acquiring a game on CDs. The name of the game escapes me now except it was spread over several CDs and was a 'haunted house' with puzzles. Solve the puzzle and you could proceed to the next game. The game was quite popular since a book was even published with hints and solutions. Never been good at games and even with the book I still could not play the game

[Elrond]

Yes! That is exactly the situation!

So how to "launch" these cases when they aren't available from the main menu? Is there a way to force the DVD to launch a specific pre-programmed set of operations? If so, I might be able to use process of elimination to figure out what the codes for launching the 10 available ones are then figure out how to launch the 2 hidden ones.... where are "DVD commands" stored on the disc?

Thanks for your insight!!!

[DB83]

All dvd commands are stored in the ifo's. You can view the commands with programs such as ifo-edit or PgcEdit. But even then it is not as simple as that. If you view the commands you will also see registers, internally stored in your player, being changed. These registers are then read to invoke the new commands.


So you, theoretically, can force the dvd to play a sequence out of order by re-programming the commands. But it is not so easy as it sounds.

[Elrond]

Ahhhh... Is it normal to have an .ifo file for EVERY .vob file?

Could I potentially force it to play by attempting to play the .ifo file but deleting the .vob file for the main menu. Previously, every time I try to launch any of the .vob files, it just automatically plays the initial title material and then goes to the main menu. What if I deleted the .vob file that contains those bits?

[october262]

Hi! I'm new here and registered to ask a question which will reveal how much of a newbie I am on anything tech related...

I have a favourite game that was published in 2005 from Hasbro: Clue DVD (Cluedo DVD). It included 10 special cases complete with unique set up instructions, video hints, events, etc. that happen throughout each case. It's quite a fun game.

The odd thing that we've discovered is that there are complete video files for 2 additional cases NOT available from the main menu... These video files are included in .VOB files - some of them are alongside other data used elsewhere (for example, all of the set up instructions for all 12 cases are included in 1 .vob file). There are also unused .ifo and .bup files apparently connected to these hidden .vob files.

So a normal case looks like this:
1) You insert the DVD and it plays the normal opening material, then proceeds to the Title Menu with links to 10 cases.
2) You click on one of the 10 cases
3) It leads you into the unique set up directions for that case
4) It plays a unique intro clip (all of the intro clips are contained on 1 .vob file)
5) It then transitions to the individual case's menu (is this perhaps called Root Menu?) which has some options which only become available after certain amounts of time.
6) Occasionally, the "inspector" will ask to see you to provide a clue.
7) You may "summon the butler" which accesses unique hints to the case. These are all stored on separate .vob files for each case (so there are 12 .vob files, each containing the main menu and the video files unique to each case).

So all of the raw video files are there for these 2 extra cases - but the trouble is, how do I get them to PLAY with the correct timers, sequence, etc. (like the other 10 cases). I've tried looking for "easter eggs" on the main menu, but no success...

Any hints would be greatly appreciated! I don't even really know how to explain what I'm asking but I'll be happy to try to explain further!

see here - https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2362966/missing-cases
there's another link in that forum that should tell how to access the 2 hidden cases.

[DB83]

^^ It appears that the 'solutions' were written by the OP which is why he is now here

[DB83]

And to answer your question. If the vobs are separate titles as in VTS_01, VTS_02 etc. they will have their own ifo.

[DB83]

I looked it up and that game I was referring to was 'The 7th Guest' or the follow up 'The 11th Hour'.

[manono]

In addition to DB83's (probably correct) theory, there's also a chance the missing video was not intended to be accessed. That is, they might have been originally intended to be included in the game but the producers changed their minds for one reason or another even after the DVD had been almost finalized. Some menu command changes might have locked them out. I've seen it before.

A close examination of all the commands in PGCEdit should tell the tale. Figure out where the missing video is located and find the commands that access it (or not).

[Elrond]

Ah! I *think* that's what I'm looking for - something to tell me if the clips needed for the video are still connected by a hidden menu or something... I'm not really sure I'll be able to understand it when it's open. It's taking awhile to open. If I KNOW that VTS_20_0.VOB & VTS_20_1.VOB & VTS_21_0.VOB & VTS_21_1.VOB are not used in any of the accessible cases, would I be able to locate these in PgcEdt?

Edit: It's currently finding "BOVs" in Titles... I have no idea what that means...

[DB83]

In this context 'BOV' stands for ButtonOverVideo. ie menus and selections

[Elrond]

Thanks!

So there DOES appear to be hidden buttons on the main menu... 13, 14, 15, 16, & 17 are all stacked in the lower right corner of the DVD menu. I have no idea what that means.

And I've located the correct files for one of the missing cases... They all seem to be programmed just like the rest of the cases. I just still don't see how I'm supposed to launch it.

[DB83]

I can only write generally as I did. To get the specific help you require, someone with the game who is also a member and have the knowledge of how dvd's work would have to contribute. And my knowledge of dvd commands is slight (the disk I authored was modelled on another so I simply had to copy the commands and revise to suit my needs)


But now you are aware of the potential location of a 'hidden' button have to tried to click in that area when the game plays ?

[aedipuss]

if you google for a couple minutes - "Just heard back from Rob Daviau who worked on this production. In answer to a query about the missing cases, he had this to say:

We had to cut two cases near the end because we ran out of playtest time. They are unfinished. Didn’t even know they were still on the final disc."

[Elrond]

You guys have been great! I thought I had the solution as I was able to move the buttons 13-17 on the main menu to be accessible from any standard DVD player.

Unfortunately, they just reset the main menu... I assume they basically act like timers to play the main menu music and animation 5 times and then it probably just goes still.

I was also the guy who reached out to the creators. He didn’t seem to know they were even on the DVD.

I’ll get back to it tomorrow... maybe sleeping on it will provide more inspiration.

[koberulz]

Inspiration for what? You have your answer.

[Elrond]

I do? Well, I guess I'm being dense because I'm not sure what it is...

Thanks to DB83 & manono for your help!

Using PgcEdit, it APPEARS that the Program Chain for the missing two cases is still intact. I just have to figure out how to create a button on the main menu prompting them to run.

[koberulz]

They're unfinished, so they don't work, so there's no way to access them.

[DB83]

From a simplistic case you look at the pre and post commands of the cases that 'work'


You then write commands that appear to indicate the workflow of the 'missing' cases. Like I said, if one had the knowledge from the known elements one could probably re-author the dvd to include these cases.


But unlike a certain respondent, I admire your tenacity. research elements have always been there - I know that from another current non-dvd-related project I currently work on -. It is 'simply' a question of finding the 'key' that unlocks the 'treasure'.

[koberulz]

That only applies if all the elements exist, which doesn't seem to be the case.

[Elrond]

That only applies if all the elements exist, which doesn't seem to be the case.

They do appear to exist. I can see them on PgcEdit. A game designer who had nothing to do with the DVD production and didn’t even know they were included on the DVD said, “They aren’t playable” which is true as is but doesn’t tell us whether they can be made to be playable.

Thanks for the encouragement DB38!

[manono]

A game designer who had nothing to do with the DVD production and didn’t even know they were included on the DVD said, “They aren’t playable” which is true as is but doesn’t tell us whether they can be made to be playable.

He didn't mean they weren't playable because there were no menu commands allowing you to access them. As you well know, he meant that in their current state they couldn't be used as a part of the game or whatever it is. Sure, if you know what you're doing you can create menu commands and new buttons to access them. All you'll be able to do is to play them, but they won't be a part of the game at all. Maybe that's enough for you. I don't know.

In any event, you can easily extract them to play them outside of the DVD. I'm not sure what the goal is here. You actually want to play them as a part of the DVD, followed by returning to the main menu? Making that happen requires some serious DVD authoring skills.

[Elrond]

A game designer who had nothing to do with the DVD production and didn’t even know they were included on the DVD said, “They aren’t playable” which is true as is but doesn’t tell us whether they can be made to be playable.

He didn't mean they weren't playable because there were no menu commands allowing you to access them. As you well know, he meant that in their current state they couldn't be used as a part of the game or whatever it is. Sure, if you know what you're doing you can create menu commands and new buttons to access them. All you'll be able to do is to play them, but they won't be a part of the game at all. Maybe that's enough for you. I don't know.

In any event, you can easily extract them to play them outside of the DVD. I'm not sure what the goal is here. You actually want to play them as a part of the DVD, followed by returning to the main menu? Making that happen requires some serious DVD authoring skills.

Sorry - I guess I didn't explain it very well. Each "case" is a standalone "game." It plays in the background as you use traditional Clue/Cluedo components like a board, pawn, and cards. When you select a "case", it begins by setting up the game (ie, telling you which cards to put into the confidential Cluedo envelope by use of secret symbols on the back of the cards). Then it plays a short 30 second video and finally goes to the individual case's menu, which provides you with several options. You then begin to play just like you would any other Cluedo game with moving to different rooms and making suggestions. Occasionally, the DVD will interrupt you with a clue or to tell you a new game option has become available.

It *appears* (although I am no expert) that all of the sequencing coding is still intact on the missing cases - that they would play in order if once accessed - there's just no way to "launch" them. That is, all of the individual chapter and title files are correctly tied together to be able to be played, I just have to tell the DVD to start this particular sequence, which is what I'm not sure how to do.

[Cornucopia]

Best you can do is follow the trails of the working ones, getting a hang for the jump logic. Then recreate it for the non-working ones when you re-author.

I used to be pretty good at that sort of thing - 2 decades ago! (Scenarist & DVDMaestro). Much more newer stuff pushed that old stuff out of my brain.

Scott