Best HDMI Capture Device for Satellite TV, Games & PC?

[VideoFanatic]

I would like to be able to record up to 1080p from the Xbox 360, PS3, PC, Satellite TV at up to 30 Mbps. Can anyone suggest the best HDMI capture device for the job? I know I can record games on the PC with Fraps but that only works for games.

I'm thinking about a "HD PVR 2 Gaming Editing Plus" as this can record HDMI & Component with 5.1 surround. It can record 5.1 surround via HDMI. However as far as I can see it can only record at a maximum video bitrate of 15 Mbps. Is that correct? Is there different software I could use to record at a higher bitrate? I remember using a DVR Satellite box which allowed copying unencrypted UK Sky HD recordings onto my PC and when I used MediaInfo on my sports programme it said the bitrate was 29 Mbps so I don't think the 15 Mbps bitrate limit of the HD PVR would be enough.

To record Satellite TV and the PS3 via HDMI I would be using a HDMI stripper. I've heard this device works, can anyone confirm that? I would prefer a device that has HDMI in and HDMI out instead of having video and audio separately with DVI and optical.

[jman98]

The HD PVR family of devices are meant to be "video in" recorders. Netflix doesn't work that way. I've never heard of it being possible to record Netflix streams with this kind of device. What I mean is you run the video output of a playback device of some kind (ie. Xbox, TV cable box, VCR, etc.) into the video input of the device.

I think that some testing here showed the HD PVR family of devices maxing out, but I thought it was around 18 or 19 Mbps. Not sure. I've never had a need to go that high. I can't speak for Satellite TV, but with cable TV it would be unusual for you to actually be getting 29 Mbps, but again, maybe satellite is different.

You should NOT need a stripper. It's useless for Netflix and I thought the PS3 could be recorded without having to do that, but a gamer will have to speak to that. It's definitely useless for Netflix though.

[VideoFanatic]

PS3 is encrypted over HDMI so you need a HDMI stripper.

[Cauptain]

For record PS3 via HDMI using any HDMI capture card, buy this: CVID STRIPPER

Its really work for any HDCP source. I bought 2 units heheheh.





Claudio

[usually_quiet]

I would like to be able to record up to 1080p from the Xbox 360, PS3, PC, Satellite TV and Nxxxx. Can anyone suggest the best HDMI capture device for the job? I know I can record games on the PC with Fraps but that only works for games.

I would be playing Nxxxx on my PS3 which can ouput Nxxxx in 1080p via HDMI or 1080i via Component.

I'm thinking about a "HD PVR 2 Gaming Editing Plus" as this can record HDMI & Component with 5.1 surround. It can record 5.1 surround via HDMI. However as far as I can see it can only record at a maximum video bitrate of 15 Mbps. Is that correct? Is there different software I could use to record at a higher bitrate? I remember using a DVR Satellite box which allowed copying unencrypted UK Sky HD recordings onto my PC and when I used MediaInfo on my sports programme it said the bitrate was 29 Mbps so I don't think the 15 Mbps bitrate limit of the HD PVR would be enough.

To record Nxxxx & the PS3 via HDMI I would be using a HDMI stripper. I've heard this device works, can anyone confirm that?

I guess you didn't see the rules about Netflix either.

Do NOT talk about copying rented material
You are not allowed to rip/copy/record rented video. It includes streaming rented video like netflix, itunes, hulu plus, etc.

[VideoFanatic]

Sorry, I've removed Netflix from my original post.

[usually_quiet]

Sorry, I've removed Netflix from my original post.

It is still in the thread's title.

[VideoFanatic]

I can't change thread titles, I've asked a moderator to close the thread.

[Baldrick]

I changed the thread title. Just skip any netflix discussion.

[VideoFanatic]

So does anyone have any suggestions on how to record HDMI with 5.1 surround apart from the "HD PVR 2 Gaming Editing Plus" as I think that can only record at a max of 15 Mbps?

[usually_quiet]

So does anyone have any suggestions on how to record HDMI with 5.1 surround apart from the "HD PVR 2 Gaming Editing Plus" as I think that can only record at a max of 15 Mbps?

Hauppauge is the only company offering HD capture devices that hardware encode to H.264 and record 5.1 surround sound.

None of the latest 1080p capture devices from well-known brands that hardware encode to H.264 will give you the bitrate you want, and they record at 24fps, 25fps or 30fps, maximum. They won't record at 50fps or 60fps.

[jagabo]

There are a few capture devices that can record 1080p at over 15 Mb/s. The ElGato Game Capture HD can record at 30 Mb/s. The Avermedia c875 can record up to 60 Mb/s. They accept 1080p60 as input but will decimate to 1080p30 for recording.

[usually_quiet]

I can't change thread titles ...

For future reference, if you started the thread, you can edit the thread's title. Just click the "Go Advanced" button, and you can edit the title on the page it opens.

[VideoFanatic]

Thanks, I didn't realise I could do that.

I've looked at different devices such as the Elgato, AverMedia Live Gamer Portable and the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus. The Elgato records at 30 Mbps, The AverMedia records at 60 Mbps and the PVR records at 13.5 Mbps. Unfortunately the first two devices record in the crappy AAC format at 224 Kbps which isn't Bluray compliant and they only have Stereo. Other than that they seem to have fewer bugs and are superior to the PVR. However the PVR can record in AC3 5.1 surround format at up to 384 Kbps.

The PVR also still seems to have an issue where you need to record in 13.5 Mbps at a constant bitrate as anything else causes pixellation such as recording standard definition footage at 6 Mbps. I was hoping for something that would use a variable bitrate without bugs.

I've always wondered as well that if I record a 1080i TV show off my satellite box, would recording in 720p actually make it progressive or would it just be progressive in name only? Would it say interlaced or progressive in MediaInfo? If so the file size should be lower than recording the same show in 480i as progressive takes less space.

[usually_quiet]

Thanks, I didn't realise I could do that.

I've looked at different devices such as the Elgato, AverMedia Live Gamer Portable and the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus. The Elgato records at 30 Mbps, The AverMedia records at 60 Mbps and the PVR records at 13.5 Mbps. Unfortunately the first two devices record in the crappy AAC format at 224 Kbps which isn't Bluray compliant and they only have Stereo. Other than that they seem to have fewer bugs and are superior to the PVR. However the PVR can record in AC3 5.1 surround format at up to 384 Kbps.

The PVR also still seems to have an issue where you need to record in 13.5 Mbps at a constant bitrate as anything else causes pixellation such as recording standard definition footage at 6 Mbps. I was hoping for something that would use a variable bitrate without bugs.

I've always wondered as well that if I record a 1080i TV show off my satellite box, would recording in 720p actually make it progressive or would it just be progressive in name only? Would it say interlaced or progressive in MediaInfo? If so the file size should be lower than recording the same show in 480i as progressive takes less space.

File size is dictated by how the files were encoded, so you may or may not save space by recording at 720p.

I record TV with a TV tuner card, and the transport stream is captured without re-encoding. The files for 1080i TV shows and 720p TV shows consume about the same amount of hard disk space. Some 720p files are even a bit larger than some 1080i files.

[SHS]

AverMedia can't possible even records at 60Mbps there no way it can do that when it only on USB 2 device that is why there a cap limit on HD-PVR of 13.5 or 14Mbps depend which HD-PVE it is, I think it listing error I think should read Maximum: 16Mbps

The PVR also still seems to have an issue where you need to
record in 13.5 Mbps at a constant bitrate as anything else causes pixellation
such as recording standard definition footage at 6 Mbps. I was hoping for
something that would use a variable bitrate without bugs.

That was only with first HD-PVR also keep mind that it can be a plain when some thing look bad when it may be not so, so as rule try testing your clip though VLC as Windows Media Player and Hauppauge own codec doesn't always work well as in not get a long with x264 decoding

[Cauptain]

AverMedia can't possible even records at 60Mbps there no way it can do that when it only on USB 2 device that is why there a cap limit on HD-PVR of 13.5 or 14Mbps depend which HD-PVE it is, I think it listing error I think should read Maximum: 16Mbps

Its a new beta software (RE CENTRAL). They claim record 60mbps really.






Claudio

[jagabo]

AverMedia can't possible even records at 60Mbps there no way it can do that when it only on USB 2 device that is why there a cap limit on HD-PVR of 13.5 or 14Mbps depend which HD-PVE it is, I think it listing error I think should read Maximum: 16Mbps

Wrong. I have an Elgato Game Capture HD that records at 30 Mb.s. USB2 is capable of ~250 Mb/s sustained throughput. I have no doubt the AverMedia can record at 60 Mb.s.

I had both for a few weeks and found the recording quality of the ElGato at 30 Mb/s is noticeably better than the HD PVR 2 at ~15 Mb/s (1080p60 source being recorded as 1080p30).

[SHS]

USB2 theoretical maximum connection speed = 480Mbps = 60MB/s but in real world it more like a avg 25MB/s maybe 30MB/s with no other device and you need take in count for share overhead and speed become slow because of it share bandwidth.
In case if can that cool if can do it.

[jagabo]

USB2 theoretical maximum connection speed = 480Mbps = 60MB/s but in real world it more like a avg 25MB/s maybe 30MB/s

Which is what I said. 250 Mb/s ~= 30 MB/s. Avermedia would have no problem getting 60 Mb/s (7.5 MB/s) over USB2.

[VideoFanatic]

Would 15MB bitrate on the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus be enough to capture HD TV at 720p in full quality. Any idea what the maximum bitrate of 720p Blurays are?

[SHS]

Avermedia would have no problem getting 60 Mb/s (7.5 MB/s) over USB2.

So can HD-PVR

[jagabo]

Avermedia would have no problem getting 60 Mb/s (7.5 MB/s) over USB2.

So can HD-PVR

So when are they going to have a driver or software that allows more than 16 Mb/s? And why did you say

AverMedia can't possible even records at 60Mbps there no way it can do that when it only on USB 2

[SHS]

Would 15MB bitrate on the HD PVR 2 Gaming Edition Plus be enough to capture HD TV at 720p in full quality. Any idea what the maximum bitrate of 720p Blurays are?

You can only max it out to 14MB bitrate and I only use 8MB on DVD disc which more then enough for Blu-ray at 720p for me if it a Blu-ray Disc then I take it to 12MB

[vhelp]

its definately posible to record (capture) video over usb2 60Mb/s since the (hdpvr/avermedia) device sends the encoded data in smaller size packets aprox 100kb to 2MB or more, depending on the bitrate you set it to for recording. to see for yourself, start a recording with the device and open up the folder where the file is written to (ie, i use h:\video.ts) and press the F5 key repeatedly, depending on the bitrate you set the recording to, the filesize will be updated in small 100kb or more size per ~1/2 sec. ie, when i set the hdpvr-1 bitrate to 5Mbps, the filesize updates at aprox 100kb every ~1/2 sec. if i set the bitrate higher, say 9Mbps, then it updates aprox 1MB, less or higher. the elgato max's 30Mbps, i guess jagabo can test how much data is passing at the bitrate. so 60Mbps (60/8=7.5MB) is no problem even if the elgato is sending 7.5MB/s.

[SHS]

So when are they going to have a driver or software that allows more than 16 Mb/s? And why did you say

You do know a that 60 Mb/s (7.5 MB/s) = 7500kbps and that a far cry from 60000kbps = 480Mbps = 60MB/s

[jagabo]

Any idea what the maximum bitrate of 720p Blurays are?

The max video bitrate allowed on Blu-ray is 40 Mb/s.

[vhelp]

60,000kbs is the same as saying 60Mbps (MegaBits per sec) they were just dramatising it a bit.
thus, 60Mbps has penty of headroom for 480Mbps i/o throughput.

look at it this way:

60/8 = 7.5MB
60,000/8 = 7,500kbps

7.5Mb and 75000kbps is saying the same thing.

Mbps    Kbps   div   max MB datarate over usb2
12      12000   8       1.5 -- hauppauge 250/350
13.5    13500   8       1.6 -- hauppauge hdpvr-1/2
15      15000   8       1.8
30      30000   8       3.7 -- elgato
60      60000   8       7.5 -- avermedia c875
120     120000  8      15.0
240     240000  8      30.0
480     480000  8      60.0 -- usb-2 max

edit: the only hardware capture card that i know of that was capable of bumping the bitrate beyond stated limits is the hauppauge hvr-1600, a pci-e i/o card, with this card, i was able to set it to over 100Mbps. at that time i had very noisy sources and it didn't matter so much how high i set the bitrate to. i could have gone higher, but was no point. i never tested for what the limit was in that card. and i am working on seeing if it is possible to "hack" the hdpvr-1 the same way, when time allows me to play with that.

[VideoFanatic]

I know but I was just wondering if you know of any Blurays that are in 720p and what the max bitrate is as I don't think most Blurays use the max bitrate but I may be wrong.

I don't know what all this discussion about 60 Mb/s is about. All the recording devices refer to MB not Mb/s. There's no way the elgato records at a max of 60 Mb/s (7.5 MB/s).Whether it can actually record at 60 MB or not I don't know (it says it can) but I imagine it can do at least 30MB.

[SHS]

Any idea what the maximum bitrate of 720p Blurays are?

The max video bitrate allowed on Blu-ray is 40 Mb/s.

It really 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps and it can go much higher just be raising the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.