Buying a VCR to capture old home recordings

[Drbuzz0]

This Christmas I went to my parent's home and was reminded that they have a TON of videos that were taken as home recordings. Some are VHS-C (late 1990's) and even more are VHS. They go back to the 1980's. I want to capture them to a digital format so I can preserve them and also do some enhancement (like re-balancing bad color, possibly high quality deinterlacing and so on)

I'm trying to figure out what kind of VCR I should get to do this. Obviously, regular consumer VCR's are cheap and not hard to find. I could probably get those at a yard sale or on eBay, but I want to get the absolute best quality off of these tapes, so I want the best VCR.

Would it be to my advantage to get an S-VHS deck? Granted, these are not S-VHS tapes (just regular VHS), but my impression is that S-VHS decks simply have higher quality components and tracking.

What about some kind of editing deck? I know these have some extra features, like built in time base correction and, again, the components just strike me as being of a much higher quality in general.


Then there is the D-VHS deck. D-VHS was a short lived format, which was used for recording digital video onto special VHS-like tapes. They could record HDTV, but they were obsolete shortly after they were introduced, due to HDDVD and then Blu-Ray. However, the D-VHS deck is again, just a higher quality kind of video player. IT has precise digital tracking etc. And it IS downward compatible with regular old VHS. You can play VHS tapes in a D-VHS deck.


I'm willing to pay some money here, because these tapes are important to me, and my primary concern is that the deck I use has the best quality components and will extract the best quality video off of those tapes.


VHS equipment is being thrown away in droves, so I can pretty easily find a deal on a pro-grade VCR that some studio paid a grand for in 1992.


There is also a USB VCR. IT has built in capture and hooks right up to the USB port on your PC. It looks easy, but I'm unconvinced that it includes the best possible heads and tracking mechanism, and that's what is really important to me.

[orsetto]

There are loads and loads and LOADS of threads on this topic, here and elsewhere, going back nearly 20 years.

Unfortunately the info is wildly outdated at this point. The go-to, most-recommended "premium" JVC and Panasonic SVHS VCRs with desirable TBC and DNR features are now extremely difficult to find in good functional condition. Finding a technician to repair them who isn't a total incompetent hack is even more difficult. If you do find a good tech, expect to pay minimum $250 to properly overhaul the typical worn-out example. Longtime VH member LordSmurf still maintains a list of the best old VCRs and ancillary gear on his DigitalFaq website: start here.

The pricey high-end VCRs with TBC/DNR were never volume sellers for mfrs, so they are far less common second-hand than "ordinary" VCRs. When the digital conversion craze began fifteen years ago, there was a feeding frenzy for "deluxe" VCRs on eBay. Everybody and his mother and her dog wanted one. Limited supply meant a single such VCR would change hands many times over the past fifteen years (and many of those hands would be attached to clueless abusive dolts). Fast forward to 2018, and most of those once-coveted VCRs are now dumpster fodder (that unscrupulous sellers still try to palm off for hundreds of $$$ to unsuspecting newbies). Wide availability of top-grade VCRs, PC encoding accessories and DVD/HDD recorders began rapidly drying up around 2009. The DIY digitization craze fizzled out. Any Rip Van Winkles just now waking up to notice they have a boatload of old tapes they want to digitize are simply too late.

I'm sorry the news is so discouraging, but that is the realistic picture of where things stand. Others will disagree, and swear on their childrens heads that JVC 9900s and Panasonic 1980s fall from the trees where they live, and great repairmen have shops located right up their street. Those people live in an alternate dimension that average newcomers here are very unlikely to ever visit: don't get your hopes up. By all means, spend a little time trying to hunt down a good TBC/DNR equipped VCR- you could get lucky. But be prepared to accept the more "average" results you will get from "average" VCRs (those DO literally fall out of the trees in perfect condition).

BTW, forget the "$3000 studio VCRs available for a song" option. The big studio VCRs were designed for studio-spec VHS and studio-level maintenance crews. They usually aren't a good match for consumer tapes, especially not VHS-C with its many tracking problems. The JVC and Mitsubishi consumer DVHS models remain your best bet in finding functional VCRs with TBC/DNR that aren't yet worn down to the bone (because they're a decade newer than most of the classic SVHS models). The Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U DVHS is as close as one can realistically get to a functional "classic" JVC DigiPure in the current second-hand market (usually in good condition, usually change hands for $300 or so). The JVC DVHS models are also good, but more variable in terms of TBC and DNR operation: depends on your specific tapes and how they interact with the circuits. The Mitsu has the option to turn them on or off, but some of the JVCs have them turned permanently on.

There are workarounds that can help "ordinary" VCRs work better. The most popular is to connect an old Panasonic DMR-ES10 dvd recorder between the VCR and your digital capture device. By passing the signal from an ordinary VCR thru the ES10 inputs and outputs, you gain some of the cleaning and stabilizing abilities built into the old TBC/DNR SVHS machines. The result isn't exactly the same, but the ES10 can work wonders with some tapes and capture units. Dedicated external TBCs can also be useful sometimes, but they repair a different aspect of the signal than the "TBC" built into the old VCRs.

Long story short: you'll probably need to compromise, and certainly need to experiment. It is also likely you'll burn thru some money to no good end (most of us did, and still do). Good luck.

[JVRaines]

Would it be to my advantage to get an S-VHS deck? Granted, these are not S-VHS tapes (just regular VHS), but my impression is that S-VHS decks simply have higher quality components and tracking.

SVHS decks will have an s-video output, which is superior to composite (the yellow RCA jack).

What about some kind of editing deck? I know these have some extra features, like built in time base correction and, again, the components just strike me as being of a much higher quality in general.

An editing deck is more likely to have been beaten to death. They are (were) great with their own recordings but not so hot with random consumer tapes.

Then there is the D-VHS deck. D-VHS was a short lived format, which was used for recording digital video onto special VHS-like tapes. They could record HDTV, but they were obsolete shortly after they were introduced, due to HDDVD and then Blu-Ray. However, the D-VHS deck is again, just a higher quality kind of video player. IT has precise digital tracking etc. And it IS downward compatible with regular old VHS. You can play VHS tapes in a D-VHS deck.

You can't count on a digital deck having higher quality analog circuitry. In fact, the opposite may be true. They're not going to take up valuable space for fancy analog processing when DVHS is what they're selling.

[Drbuzz0]

I have a JVC D-VHS model that I bought back in the early 2000's, before Blu-Ray. I was an early HDTV adopter, and it was the best you could do for the time, if you wanted to have HDTV on demand. I was thinking of just using that.

The unit was designed and intended for recording HD transport streams over firewire. IT will still play back S-VHS and regular old VHS tapes. I don't know if that makes it a very good VCR, since the ability to play back VHS is basically an after-thought. It was not the primary purpose of the unit.

I have no idea if it has good TBC for analog tapes.

If it does not, I can get a good external time base corrector to use external to the unit for a couple of hundred dollars.

I'm just wondering if my JVC D-VHS vcr will fit the bill. Bearing in mind, it is really designed to record HDTV transport streams.

[orsetto]

Most (but not all) DVHS decks do have some variation of the TBC/DNR circuits people go crazy looking for to perk up their analog tapes. JVC wasn't clueless: they knew the digital HDTV function of DVHS would only be used part time. Buyers of a $1200 VCR in 2001 would have certainly expected it to include above-average playback of their majority analog tape collection, so most of them did.

Given the very limited market demand, JVC made an inexplicable explosion of DVHS models, with all manner of analog playback distinctions. Some of them include several SVHS DigiPure features (TBC-DNR-Stabilizer-R3). Others include only the TBC or only the noise filtering. Some JVC DVHS allow switching some of the circuits off, while others keep them on continually with no option to defeat them (bad for tapes that react poorly to such circuits). Sorting out which JVC DVHS has which configuration of DigiPure can be a total PITA: there has been some discussion of all the model differences here and at DigitalFaq. The JVC DVHS can be great alternatives, but they were cult items due to their exclusive ability to play commercial Hollywood DVHS tapes (the Mitsu cannot do this). Cult status = heavy use and/or many owners.

Drbuzz0, if you post back with the exact model number of your JVC DVHS, it can be cross-referenced with LordSmurf's data to perhaps reveal which DigiPure features it has on board (and whether they can be disabled when necessary). That would help you figure out if a different or additional VCR would be better for your task. Most of us end up with at least three premium and/or plain VCRs with varying playback advantages for different types of recordings (worn, pristine, SP, LP, EP, camcorder sourced, Hollywood, etc). Since you've been the original and only owner of your JVC DVHS, chances are good it still works well enough to handle at least some of your old tapes.

Age, wear and alignment disparities would bury subtle circuit differences between brands/models of premium VCR, as would the wide variety of tape signals people deal with. Those starting from scratch today might consider the Mitsu 2000 first, then try an older JVC or Panasonic SVHS if their tapes require it. Not much difference between Mitsu DVHS and old JVC SVHS vcrs. The Panasonic is another kettle of fish, with distinctly different TBC/DNR performance and some transport advantages that help with poor tracking. Sadly the Panasonic AG1980 is the single most self-destructing VCR on the planet, and very expensive to repair. I mostly use my two Mitsu 2000s: one single DVHS model, with configuration identical to the original JVC SVHS DigiPure. Easy to understand, easy to find in reasonably good condition. Classic JVC SVHS have given me headaches since the '80s, and my (many) Panasonic AG1980s are in varying states of dysfunction too difficult to repair.

[pandy]

I would inspect tapes before any serious purchase - they can be destroyed as well due bad storage condition.

[Sparkorc]

Whilst this thread is now old, those people that wish to preserve their old tapes should rewind the tapes end to end then back again at least every other year, and store them in a vertical position away from any heat or damp, I still have excellent tapes from 1987 stored this way, some of my older VHS tapes were copied to my S-VHS deck, I am now at present going to save all family ones digitally, my only problem is I also have several Hi8 tapes which I have no longer got anything to play them back on and its not really worth purchasing a Hi8 deck or Hi8 camera if any still exist are are any good.

The 4 decks that I still own albeit not used any more untill now, and thoughly recommend them I purchased them all from new consist of Panasonic S-VHS AG-4700, Panasonic S-VHS NV-FS90, JVC mini DV & S-VHS HR-DVSI, Sony Mini HDV GY-HD700e, the Sony deck can be fussy on tapes played back if original aquisition tapes are from different brand of cameras especially if it shot in HDV.

As already mentioned inspect your tapes before purchasing any deck, because if the tapes have been stored wrongly you wont be able to use any deck to save them digitally.

[lordsmurf]

...

Well, wait a minute. Don't discourage anybody reading this too much.

You've always been somewhat negative about hardware, and the hardware scene is going downhill more than not (thus catching up to your negativity), but it's still not THAT bad. At least not yet. Save that level of negativity for Betamax, which is in a pickle. But S-VHS isn't there yet.

You still want a S-VHS VCR.
Why? The consumer VHS VCRs are all worse off.

Unfortunately the info is wildly outdated at this point.

Oh, not really. Outdated, some, perhaps. But not wildly.

The go-to, most-recommended "premium" JVC and Panasonic SVHS VCRs with desirable TBC and DNR features are now extremely difficult to find in good functional condition.

If you're patient, and good decks do come along. I sold most of my gear in 2017 (though not all the extras, not yet), and it is/was all nice stuff. So it exists out there. I know several people out there, who don't actually need/use their gear anymore, but are hording it (for now) because they know they'll never find such cherry gear again. But they will eventually crumble, selling their valuable clutter.

The pricey high-end VCRs with TBC/DNR were never volume sellers for mfrs, so they are far less common second-hand than "ordinary" VCRs. When the digital conversion craze began fifteen years ago, there was a feeding frenzy for "deluxe" VCRs on eBay. Everybody and his mother and her dog wanted one. Limited supply meant a single such VCR would change hands many times over the past fifteen years (and many of those hands would be attached to clueless abusive dolts). Fast forward to 2018, and most of those once-coveted VCRs are now dumpster fodder (that unscrupulous sellers still try to palm off for hundreds of $$$ to unsuspecting newbies). Wide availability of top-grade VCRs, PC encoding accessories and DVD/HDD recorders began rapidly drying up around 2009. The DIY digitization craze fizzled out. Any Rip Van Winkles just now waking up to notice they have a boatload of old tapes they want to digitize are simply too late.

I agree with all of that.

I'm sorry the news is so discouraging, but that is the realistic picture of where things stand. Others will disagree, and swear on their childrens heads that JVC 9900s and Panasonic 1980s fall from the trees where they live, and great repairmen have shops located right up their street. Those people live in an alternate dimension that average newcomers here are very unlikely to ever visit: don't get your hopes up.

Agree again.

By all means, spend a little time trying to hunt down a good TBC/DNR equipped VCR- you could get lucky.

Yes!

But be prepared to accept the more "average" results you will get from "average" VCRs (those DO literally fall out of the trees in perfect condition).

No, no, no ... no need for that. Consumer VCRs will give worse quality, it's fact, no way around that.

BTW, forget the "$3000 studio VCRs available for a song" option. The big studio VCRs were designed for studio-spec VHS and studio-level maintenance crews. They usually aren't a good match for consumer tapes, especially not VHS-C with its many tracking problems.

Yes. Avoid a "big bertha" type VCR.

The JVC and Mitsubishi consumer DVHS models remain your best bet in finding functional VCRs with TBC/DNR that aren't yet worn down to the bone (because they're a decade newer than most of the classic SVHS models). The Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U DVHS is as close as one can realistically get to a functional "classic" JVC DigiPure in the current second-hand market (usually in good condition, usually change hands for $300 or so). The JVC DVHS models are also good, but more variable in terms of TBC and DNR operation: depends on your specific tapes and how they interact with the circuits. The Mitsu has the option to turn them on or off, but some of the JVCs have them turned permanently on.

Those D-VHS models only really work well with SP only, and play EP worse than other JVCs (and JVC was already not the king of LP or SLP/EP playback). How good/bad playback is depends on the model, and the exact unit /copy. So don't think it means "avoid all JVC" or some such nonsense.

There are workarounds that can help "ordinary" VCRs work better. The most popular is to connect an old Panasonic DMR-ES10 dvd recorder between the VCR and your digital capture device. By passing the signal from an ordinary VCR thru the ES10 inputs and outputs, you gain some of the cleaning and stabilizing abilities built into the old TBC/DNR SVHS machines. The result isn't exactly the same, but the ES10 can work wonders with some tapes and capture units.

Yeah, kinda. It has side effects, and success varies wildly. It's a poor's man / second choice type setup.

Dedicated external TBCs can also be useful sometimes, but they repair a different aspect of the signal than the "TBC" built into the old VCRs.

- External framesync TBCs = clean the signal.
- Internal line/field TBCs = clean the image/picture

You need both to not find your in capturing hell.

Long story short: you'll probably need to compromise, and certainly need to experiment. It is also likely you'll burn thru some money to no good end (most of us did, and still do). Good luck.

Buyer beware, a newbie and his money are soon parted. Be careful what you get, who you get it from. There are lot of recycler shysters online that literally dumpster-dive to find VCRs. That's great for those of us who repair decks, but some claim the units "work" when they do not. The person has zero expertise in video, and the unit "works" simply because it powered on, or because it played a picture (even if said picture is completely fubar).

Damn it, orsetto, you old grump. I'm starting to sound like you now.

You can't count on a digital deck having higher quality analog circuitry. In fact, the opposite may be true. They're not going to take up valuable space for fancy analog processing when DVHS is what they're selling.

I think the transport suffered, hence the craptastic tracking/alignment.

I have no idea if it has good TBC for analog tapes.
I'm just wondering if my JVC D-VHS vcr will fit the bill. Bearing in mind, it is really designed to record HDTV transport streams.

It should work for at least some % of your tapes.

Buyers of a $1200 VCR in 2001 would have certainly expected it to include above-average playback of their majority analog tape collection, so most of them did.

All that was is an early-adopter penalty. Or a "videophile" numbnuts (VH has several back in the day, as did AVS).

Given the very limited market demand, JVC made an inexplicable explosion of DVHS models

Nah, I never saw that. S-VHS decks were just as large a userbase, if no moreso.

Sadly the Panasonic AG1980 is the single most self-destructing VCR on the planet, and very expensive to repair.

$400 f-ing dollars each, after shipping!

While you may think the few repairs ops out there have us by the short and curlies, the truth is that those decks are NOT easy to repair. It takes a lot of time, and bag full of parts. Sometimes even replacement parts. Since nothing is knew, it's from other used decks in better shape.

Panasonic AG1980s are in varying states of dysfunction too difficult to repair.

I think it's finally gotten to where all of them need a repair. All. I'm not exaggerating here. If it's not already been re-capped, it will need it.

/ end

If anybody has more questions on VCRs, you know where to find me. (www.digitalFAQ.com/forum)