Confused, need help. DVD (TV recorder) to MKV using TMPGEnc VMW 5

[Nator]

I have a Panasonic DVD Video Recorder that has the ability to tune to and record digital stations. In this case, digital quality isn't really an issue. I've been using it to record episodes of Dobie Gillis from MeTV, as I really enjoy watching the show. Well as you can imagine, I want to rip the episodes off of the DVD and convert them to another format to cut down on the amount of space used. Getting VMW5 to read the disc isn't an issue.

Here's where there is an issue though. For some reason, VMW5 is reading the image as being 352x480 when the source is 720x480. Using Handbrake to open the same disc, on the picture tab with a 'strict' anamorphic setting, it's reporting 626x480 to me. (Not sure if that information will be helpful, but Handbrake does confirm that the source is 720x480.) Anyways, I believe that this shrinking within VMW5 is causing the real issue that I'm posting about.

It seems that no matter what I do for the encoder settings, the quality is lower in the resulting MKV. Considering it's an old show, I would think I should be able to reduce the video bitrate to something low but respectable without an issue (was using 950 with 128bit audio). However even if I have it set to 4000+ for the video bitrate, the result is more or less the same.

Allow me to clarify on the quality. Overall the imagine is fine. It's just that certain things have suffered an obvious loss in quality when compared to the original (again, even with maximum bitrate settings). What I've been using as a guide is a specific frame from a specific episode where there is a sign with words on it. In the original, the lettings are rather clear (and crisp) even when you consider the fact that the episode was made in the late 1950's to early 1960's. In the MKV, the letters are still readable but in comparison it's not as clear/crisp. (I've included two screenshots. One with 'dvd' is the original source image, other is converted.)

When I noticed that the original source is 720x480 and not 352x480, that got me thinking that this might be the reason for it, as it's reporting the original height as being smaller than it really is. Would this be correct?

What I'm aiming to find out are the following:

1. How in the world do I get the image quality to be better?
2. How do I get it to treat the DVD video as 720x480 instead of 352x480?
3. Is there a function in Handbrake to remove sections of a video? I would be using this anyway except that I want to trim out the commercials.

TIA.

Edit: Just noticed that the mkv screenshot is squished, even though in the player the image is fine (until I turn off 'keep aspect ratio').. Could that also have something to do with it? If so, what aspect setting should I be using in VMW5?

Edit: ugh.. I thought I had certain things figured out but apparently I don't.. Might need to go to the newb section.. Added a 1:1 pixel ratio screenshot (has 00.00 in the title). Can still see the quality of the letters is degraded but at least it's looking more normal. All these different aspect ratios and HxW settings are doing my head in...

[transporterfan]

How about trying this a different way.
Explore your DVD recording and find the VOB (or VOB's) which contain the actual video.
Run it/them through VOBMerge, merging to MPEG. You will end up with a single file to edit in TMPGEnc.
Save and load your edited, commercial-free file into handbrake and convert to MKV.

The quality loss is probably the low bitrate. Every conversion alters the quality.
It would be better to recode to TS then rewrap it as MKV.
Have a play with tsMuxeR and VidCoder.

[Nator]

The quality loss is probably the low bitrate. Every conversion alters the quality.

It was still losing the quality even when using 4000+ for the bit rate. I had even tried using the "constant quality" method with it set to 100 (100%).

How about trying this a different way.
Explore your DVD recording and find the VOB (or VOB's) which contain the actual video.
Run it/them through VOBMerge, merging to MPEG. You will end up with a single file to edit in TMPGEnc.
Save and load your edited, commercial-free file into handbrake and convert to MKV.

So basically, a three step (program) process? If the fact that it's treating it as smaller (352 instead of 720) is the reason for the quality loss, then if I could get it to treat it properly (either directly or by using VOBMerge) then it should be fine.

I'll see if it helps.

[transporterfan]

It's been a long time since I last used a dvd recorder but I seem to recall it had two settings SP and LP. Standard and Long Play?
The SP was for quality but with a recording time of upto 2/2.5 hours and LP upto 4 hours. Something like that.
Man, did the quality suffer for LP. The bitrate dropped to a quarter and the screen area was reduced too.
Bitrates on standard DVD can be higher than 4000. DVD-Video generally uses mpeg2 compression at up to 9.8 Mbits/s (9,800 kbits/s).
Use MediaInfo to check the file's specs.

Just so you know, I use a USB tuner with drivers for Windows Media Center. It's much easier.
Records straight to HDD. Something like this but DVB-T2 twin input:

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-TVW750USB-ATI-Theater-Tuner/dp/B002UOUQ08/ref=pd_rhf_dp_shvl4

[Nator]

It's been a long time since I last used a dvd recorder but I seem to recall it had two settings SP and LP. Standard and Long Play?
The SP was for quality but with a recording time of upto 2/2.5 hours and LP upto 4 hours. Something like that.
Man, did the quality suffer for LP. The bitrate dropped to a quarter and the screen area was reduced too.
Bitrates on standard DVD can be higher than 4000. DVD-Video generally uses mpeg2 compression at up to 9.8 Mbits/s (9,800 kbits/s).

I've been recording on LP mode which seems to give me the same quality (keep in mind this is an older show, not a newer HD show). The VOBMerge isn't helping much. It's combining the VOB files for me just fine but it's reporting that the length of the video is the same length as the first episode. Seeking through it, it shows the first episode and then after a certain point it shows parts from the last episode. On the plus side though, it's reporting the video size as being 720x480 instead of 352x480. So it's a step in the right direction.

[transporterfan]

I thought it would. But it was worth a try. DVD recorders use their own chapter marking methods. On a new disc they generally write sequentially. When blocks are overwritten and re-recorded over they can lay down tracks at various areas on the disc. It's the primary reason I stopped using them. In order to decipher the vobs properly I had to start employing software that could read the index (IFO) file. First it was DVDShrink (has a basic cutter in it), but episodic recordings are a pain. It just got too involved. Tried DVDFab, IFOEdit etc, etc. Converting, as you have discovered, causes quality loss. Got so time consuming I changed to capture cards and USB devices. Much cleaner, much easier.

Try Shrink if you want to manually separate the episodes to new vobs, MPEG Streamclip or Mpg2Cut2 to cut and slice. And Xvid4psp has a function to manually load a vob set and convert it to any format you want including MKV.

Ultimately, trust me on this it comes from years of experience, upgrade to a tuner card. It will save you pulling your hair out.

[usually_quiet]

Try VOB2MPG for merging the VOBs.

[The Mariner]

I also find the filesize of a recorded old B&W movie is often larger than the filesize of a newer colour movie recorded on the same channel.

I record to .ts format using a DVB card, edit commercials out in Video ReDo & save to .ts format, then convert the .ts to .mkv in Freemake Video Converter.

[transporterfan]

I record to .ts format using a DVB card, edit commercials out in Video ReDo & save to .ts format, then convert the .ts to .mkv in Freemake Video Converter.

I do exactly the same, but just archive the TS file.

[Nator]

I gave VOB2MPG a try and then loading that into VMW and that seems to be helping. The resolution is showing as 720x480 (although in VOB2MPG it was reporting it as 352x480, which I'm sure is the true resolution of the actual content). Now it's a matter of getting it to encode with as little loss as possible.

Now, I know that it's not going to be possible to keep it looking absolutely perfect while compressing it at the same time, but would be nice to be able to get a 30 minute episode (actual just under 23m) to roughly 175mb. Push come to shove, I'll tolerate doing it at 350mb per episode but would like to avoid doing that if possible.

Sadly though, I'd almost swear I was getting better quality (at a 950 bitrate) using VMW only instead of VOB2MPG then converting that. Any thoughts on this? Is it possible that it's converting useless content that isn't visible so that actual content gets less priority? (Hopefully you get what I mean and hopefully it doesn't sound completely stupid.)

I didn't realize that the videos were being converted in such a way that they were getting messed up as far as the aspect ratio is concerned (refer to uploaded screenshots in OP). So I'm going to have to redo all the videos I still have the source for anyway, which is all but about three or four of them. The actual process of converting only takes a few hours and I admit I'm not looking forward to doing the edits again, but would like to get it all done before the end of the week so that I can re-use the DVD's to record more episodes. The DVD I've got in the recorder right now should last the rest of this week, after that though, it's gonna be tricky.


I really like VMW because it makes it so easy to select/cut/edit clips. So if you can give any guidance where I can use that, it would be great. I've noticed that more times than not, other programs that offer editing are iffy at best for precision. It looks like you've edited something out but when watching the final result, it's still there. Likewise, when trying to make sure something is kept in (but removing content up to that point), it's partially chopped out anyway. If one of the other tools you've mentioned has precision cutting that doesn't act tricky or unreliable, I'm willing to try it. Just don't want to go through the process only to have to re-encode several times to discover that it won't let me clip it right where I want to.

[transporterfan]

The best .vob and mpeg editor, ever, is VideoRedo. Very precise. Worth the price.
'VMW because it makes it so easy to select/cut/edit clips'; if it works for you, use it.
.ts are lossless, so any .ts file you put in an MKV container will be the same as the original. The caveat is, they are usually very large.
Any compression method you use will lose you 'some' quality.
You just have to play with bitrates until you find something you are happy with.
The extra bonus to a DVB-T2 capture device is that it records HD. DVD recorders will only ever be SD.

Best you can do is edit to a .ts file then convert through handbrake using 2-pass.

[usually_quiet]

@Nator You are confused about several things...

First, 720 or 352 pixels is the width measurement. The height measurement is 480 pixels.

Second, you are indeed imagining that using VOB2MPG could cause a degradation of picture quality produced by VMW5. VOB2MPG does not re-encode anything. It just joins the VOBs for each recording session, corrects the timecodes to be compatible with an .mpg container, and copies the audio and video to a .mpg container.

Third, if VMW5 and VOB2MPG report the video resolution is 352x480, then that is almost certainly what you recorded, and whatever reported that it is 720x480 is wrong. If you want to verify the resolution that you recorded to DVD, open one of the VOBs in MediaInfo, which reads the video information directly from the VOB file.

If you have 352x480 video, you are likely using your Panasonic's EP mode without realizing it. As I understand it, Panasonic recorders built after 2006 use 720x480 resolution for XP, SP and LP mode recordings (anything up to 4 hrs per single-layer DVD), while EP mode (6 or 8 hours per single-layer DVD) resolution drops down to 352x480. However, DVD recorders made by other companies tend to use 352x480 resolution for LP and EP mode.

If you are determined to compress further, you will get a better result if you record in XP or SP mode. The recording mode you are using already uses a very low bitrate and resolution and won't compress with as good a picture quality.

I still use a DVD recorder although I have TV cards as well. I don't convert for storage. I just remove commercials. I leave the the video as MPEG-2 and the audio as ac3 because I want to keep the recorded closed captions, and find compressing the video further to save space to be a poor use of my time. Someone else will need to advice you on which settings to use for Handbrake, but I'd expect it to use 640x480 for 4:3 video converted from a 720x480 4:3 source.

[Nator]

@Nator You are confused about several things...

First, 720 or 352 pixels is the width measurement. The height measurement is 480 pixels.

Second, you are indeed imagining that using VOB2MPG could cause a degradation of picture quality produced by VMW5. VOB2MPG does not re-encode anything. It just joins the VOBs for each recording session, corrects the timecodes to be compatible with an .mpg container, and copies the audio and video to a .mpg container.

The width vs height, I keep getting the two confused. Not sure why, since it's the same as describing screen resolution for a monitor.

As for the VOB2MPG thing, I didn't say nor imply that it was re-encoding. My comment was that since VMW5 was seeing the converted videos as 720x480 vs 352x480, that perhaps it was somehow including junk data into it's compression. I'll admit that I don't know much at all about this stuff, other than that sometimes the smallest option change can make a huge difference. However I do know that, as an example only, if you include blank space around a video (a border), that too is taken into consideration for the compression. Or if my thought process isn't making sense, extra content that isn't visible can 'waste' available bits. It's like taking a text version of a book and then comparing the size of it being compressed directly -vs- uuencoding it first before compressing it. The one that was uuencoded first will take up more space even though, once fully extracted, it's the same content.

Still toying around with it. Might resort to just clipping the crap (commercials) out but otherwise retaining the videos as they are. The V2M tool is nice enough to not only covert to mpg, but into separate titles. I thank you for mentioning it.

[usually_quiet]

As for the VOB2MPG thing, I didn't say nor imply that it was re-encoding. My comment was that since VMW5 was seeing the converted videos as 720x480 vs 352x480, that perhaps it was somehow including junk data into it's compression. I'll admit that I don't know much at all about this stuff, other than that sometimes the smallest option change can make a huge difference. However I do know that, as an example only, if you include blank space around a video (a border), that too is taken into consideration for the compression. Or if my thought process isn't making sense, extra content that isn't visible can 'waste' available bits. It's like taking a text version of a book and then comparing the size of it being compressed directly -vs- uuencoding it first before compressing it. The one that was uuencoded first will take up more space even though, once fully extracted, it's the same content.

Your thought process isn't applicable to this situation.

VOB2MPG does not compress or decompress. It also does not add junk audio or video data, nor does it change the video's resolution. All it does is join the audio and video from the VOBs that make up an individual recording session, and then make a bit-for-bit identical copy of the joined audio and video in a different container, with the timecodes corrected for the new container

[Nator]

VOB2MPG does not compress or decompress. It also does not add junk audio or video data, nor does it change the video's resolution. All it does is join the audio and video from the VOBs that make up an individual recording session, and then make a bit-for-bit identical copy of the joined audio and video in a different container, with the timecodes corrected for the new container

While I appreciate the attempt to help, your misreading what I say is counterproductive. Allow me to clarify what I meant since you are determined to think I am saying something I'm not.

I did not say that V2M re-encodes. When I said that, I meant that I know that it doesn't re-encode, that it does a straight copy, leaving the actual content "as is".

When I mentioned about the compression, I was obviously referring to when using VMW5, as I had mentioned that in my previous post where you said that I said VMW5 re-encodes (which I didn't say to begin with).

When I open V2M and then convert (straight copy, I'm not saying re-encode, compress, squish, squash, smash, shrink, etc), then open and using VMW5, the resolution is showing as 720x480 instead of 352x480. I would wager a deductive guess that V2M is (but isn't) changing the resolution. By this I mean that it's not re-encoding (so please don't "correct me" saying that it's not since I'm not claiming it is) but simply changing the reported resolution. Whether this is intentional or a bug, I do not know. I'm only stating what I observed and my deduction on what happened.

So, V2M to convert from VOB to MPG format. The VMW5 to re-encode to a different format. Since VMW5 sees it as 720x480 doing it this way, it's reading 720x480 for data to compression instead of 352x480. Or another way to look at it, it's covering 368 worth of pixels (per line) that it doesn't need to.

I do recall reading during the past several years (more like a decade) of fiddling with this sort of stuff something in regards to compressing a larger resolution than the actual video will result in compressing useless data which in turn means a lower 'effective' bitrate, since some of that bitrate would be used on the useless data. I know I'm not phrasing it exactly right but I know what I read was correct because I tested it and saw the difference for myself. That's why I stated, to begin with, that I think that might be happening here and for the reason I mentioned multiple times.

Look, I truly do appreciate the assistance you are trying to offer to me, but I do ask that you read what I'm saying overall instead of on a "per post" level, because you're assuming that I'm saying things that I'm not. Just in case I need to say it again so you won't 'correct' me with this again, I didn't say nor imply that V2M re-encodes. I *know* that it's not re-encoding okay? That covers compressing because if it were to compress the data, that would fall under re-encoding, which is what it would have to do to compress it. Not 'compression' in the true sense of the word, but essentially when you convert from one format to another with an attempt to retain a major of the original quality but in a smaller file size, you are compressing the video by means of re-encoding it. (In short, PLEASE stop assuming that I'm saying V2M is re-encoding in any way, shape or form okay?)

[usually_quiet]

I have used VOB2MPG many times and have never seen it change the reported resolution either. I would suggest that if VMW5 is producing a file of a different resolution than what it was given then the settings that you have chosen for VMW5 are at fault or a bug in VMW5 is responsible.

[Nator]

I have used VOB2MPG many times and have never seen it change the reported resolution either. I would suggest that if VMW5 is producing a file of a different resolution than what it was given then the settings that you have chosen for VMW5 are at fault or a bug in VMW5 is responsible.

V2M reported the resolution as 352x480. In the resulting MPG file that it made, even using MediaInfo to check it, it's reporting 720x480 to me as the resolution.

VMW5 was reporting 352x480 to me when I was using DVD mode (thus it was using the VOBs), so I would wager that it's working just fine, just not giving me any way to cut/split/chop/etc mpegs without re-encoding. So I need a GOOD and useful tool to try to do that.

[usually_quiet]

I'm using VideoReDo Plus to manually remove advertisments from HDTV recordings from PC TV cards, as well as DVD video from a Panasonic DVD recorder I bought in 2005. It works very well for both purposes. At most, VideoReDo Plus only re-encodes a few frames adjacent to cuts. It doesn't re-encode at all if cuts are made on GOP boundaries.

VideoReDo Plus can import VOB files, but it is necessary to select "Combine" when importing multiple VOBs, and then use "Quick Stream Fix" to create an .mpg file for editing. ("Quick Stream Fix" removes the time-code breaks resulting from a VOB's cell structure.) It is often easier to use VOB2MPG to create .mpg files instead.

Cuttermaran is the only free editor that can be set up to cut SD MPEG-2 video on any frame and only re-encode a few frames around cuts, however it only accepts de-multiplexed audio and video streams as source files.

One of the unusual features of Panasonic DVD recorders old and new is that they don't use 352x480 resolution unless an EP mode is selected, or unless over 4 hours per single-layer DVD is to be recorded using FR mode. Most Panasonic owners avoid using settings that result in 352x480 resolution. I think I only tried it once before deciding I didn't like recording at 352x480 resolution.

[usually_quiet]

V2M reported the resolution as 352x480. In the resulting MPG file that it made, even using MediaInfo to check it, it's reporting 720x480 to me as the resolution.

That is fine, but I suggested you use MediaInfo on the original VOBs you recorded. What resolution did MediaInfo report for the original VOBs?

[Nator]

V2M reported the resolution as 352x480. In the resulting MPG file that it made, even using MediaInfo to check it, it's reporting 720x480 to me as the resolution.

That is fine, but I suggested you use MediaInfo on the original VOBs you recorded. What resolution did MediaInfo report for the original VOBs?

It reported 720x480, which is why I mentioned what V2M reported instead of MI for the VOBs and what MI said about the resulting MPG's. VMW5 + MI reporting 720x480 on MPG's tells me that it's most likely 720x480 regardless of what is used to open it. Since VMW5 reported 352x480 when opening the VOB files in DVD mode and V2M is reporting them as 352x480 before converting them, that tells me that they are most likely 352x480 and that MI isn't reporting it correctly.

Either way, it appears that VMW5 is reporting the resolutions correctly, despite what I had originally thought.

[usually_quiet]

V2M reported the resolution as 352x480. In the resulting MPG file that it made, even using MediaInfo to check it, it's reporting 720x480 to me as the resolution.

That is fine, but I suggested you use MediaInfo on the original VOBs you recorded. What resolution did MediaInfo report for the original VOBs?

It reported 720x480, which is why I mentioned what V2M reported instead of MI for the VOBs and what MI said about the resulting MPG's. VMW5 + MI reporting 720x480 on MPG's tells me that it's most likely 720x480 regardless of what is used to open it. Since VMW5 reported 352x480 when opening the VOB files in DVD mode and V2M is reporting them as 352x480 before converting them, that tells me that they are most likely 352x480 and that MI isn't reporting it correctly.

Either way, it appears that VMW5 is reporting the resolutions correctly, despite what I had originally thought.

It is very unlikely that MediaInfo is wrong.

However, if there is a bug in VOB2MPG, the bug and the conditions that produce it need to be reported to VOB2MPG's author, ChrissyBoy, so he can correct the problem. I have started making some test recordings to see if I can replicate the bug.

These are the resolutions and aspect ratios I will use for my samples:
4:3 NTSC video: 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, and 352x240.
16:9 NTSC video: 720x480

I discovered that I had mis-remembered the vertical resolution older Panasonic recorders use for recording modes that put more than 4 hours of video on a single-layer DVD. The correct resolutions used by pre-2006 Panasonic DVD recorders are as follows:

704x480 for recording modes that place 4 hours of material or less on a single-layer DVD
352x240 for recording modes that place over 4 hours of material on a single-layer DVD

Panasonic didn't switch to 720x480 for recording modes that place 4 hours of material or less on a single-layer DVD until 2006.

[Nator]

It is very unlikely that MediaInfo is wrong.

However, if there is a bug in VOB2MPG, the bug and the conditions that produce it need to be reported to VOB2MPG's author, ChrissyBoy, so he can correct the problem. I have started making some test recordings to see if I can replicate the bug.

These are the resolutions and aspect ratios I will use for my samples:
4:3 NTSC video: 720x480, 704x480, 352x480, and 352x240.
16:9 NTSC video: 720x480

I discovered that I had mis-remembered the vertical resolution older Panasonic recorders use for recording modes that put more than 4 hours of video on a single-layer DVD. The correct resolutions used by pre-2006 Panasonic DVD recorders are as follows:

704x480 for recording modes that place 4 hours of material or less on a single-layer DVD
352x240 for recording modes that place over 4 hours of material on a single-layer DVD

I'm using a DMR-EZ475V with it set to record up to 4 hours (LP mode). I have the timer set to start 1 minute early and end 1 minute late to ensure that I get everything. Doing this, I'm able to get up to 7 episodes.

I'm using a trial version of VideoReDo and on that same episode that I used in the OP as an example, the timing is off. By that I mean that if I seek to the same location as the screenshots, it's playing a playing content from roughly 9 seconds earlier. If I just let it play from the start, it plays just fine. More than 9 seconds were removed from the start of the clip so it's not like it's off for that reason. I guess VRD just has a bug in it.

I could try to upload one of the VOB's to a free file serving site so you could download it and see for yourself that MI is misreporting the details. Perhaps two VOB's, the two that contain that episode I've been using as a guinea pig. It would just be a matter of getting the size down so that they're within the 'free' limits.


Edit:
Oddly enough, I just tried using TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 3 and it's doing the same thing. Weird.

[usually_quiet]

I'm using a trial version of VideoReDo and on that same episode that I used in the OP as an example, the timing is off. By that I mean that if I seek to the same location as the screenshots, it's playing a playing content from roughly 9 seconds earlier. If I just let it play from the start, it plays just fine. More than 9 seconds were removed from the start of the clip so it's not like it's off for that reason. I guess VRD just has a bug in it.

I have used VideoReDo Plus to edit least a hundred MPEG-2 files since I bought it. Cuts are always made on the intended frame for files derived from DVD video. Cuts to files from HDTV captures are sometimes one frame off, but only one, and it is not a bug. It's the nature of ATSC transport streams. Two adjacent frames in a captured HDTV transport stream sometimes share the same timecode, especially if reception isn't perfect.

The user interface for VideoReDo Plus is different and takes some getting used to. Once you do, it is very easy to make precise cuts. I navigate based on what I see in VideoReDo's video display. I would not rely on timecodes taken from another editor for exact positioning of cuts.

I could try to upload one of the VOB's to a free file serving site so you could download it and see for yourself that MI is misreporting the details. Perhaps two VOB's, the two that contain that episode I've been using as a guinea pig. It would just be a matter of getting the size down so that they're within the 'free' limits.

I haven't quite finished recording my test videos for all the various resolutions and aspect ratios in my previous post yet. I still have to make a recording for 16:9 video,

I have looked at videos for all the other resolutions at 4:3 aspect ratio. So far there are no differences in the resolutions reported for the .mpgs produced by VOB2MPG v3.0 (in IFO Mode), and the VOBs they were created from. VOB2MPG, Windows Explorer, VideoReDo, and MediaInfo all agree on reported resolutions. I do not have VMW5.

[Nator]

The user interface for VideoReDo Plus is different and takes some getting used to. Once you do, it is very easy to make precise cuts. I navigate based on what I see in VideoReDo's video display. I would not rely on timecodes taken from another editor for exact positioning of cuts.

I should have been more precise with what I meant, but I thought you would have realized what I meant. When I tried it with VRD, I did the cuts as I normally would have and then saved it to a new (finalized) file. When playing that file, if I let it play without skipping at all, the timing is the same as one of the encoded files from VMW5. However, in that same file, if I navigate at all, the timing is off.

For example, let's say that I let the video play for 30 seconds and right at the 15 second mark, there is a visual change (where the camera angle has changed). If I navigate back to that 15 second mark, that same camera angle change won't happen until the 20 second mark. (It seems the difference in time grows as you get further into the video).

So it's not that I'm expecting things to be exactly the same in two different editors. It's the resulting video that is acting weird. However as I mentioned in my previous post (it was an edit and you may have not noticed it since your post came a few minutes later), the same thing is happening when I use ME3 (TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 3).

VRD is taking some getting use to and there are some things that I think could be better about it, but for what I'm trying to do, I believe I have it figured out well enough. I thought I had an option enabled to create chapters at cuts (in VRD) but it appears that I either don't, or it's just not working. Aside from that and the timing thing, it seems to be doing a good job.

I still would prefer to re-encode to make the file smaller, but as the resulting videos are running 415-425mbmb in size, that's not too bad. At that rate, I should be able to fit about 50 to 52 videos on a BR disc. No where near as nice as over 100 videos at 180mb each, but not a huge deal if it's easier to handle this way.

[lacywest]

Without reading everything written here ... take a look in the Panasonic DVD Recorder and see what setting for LP is ... I dont have mine set for 8 Hours ... quality does look good but the 8 Hour setting is too much.

The video will look really strange ... I hate messing with video files that are created that way ... I waste no time changing the settings so that they resemble normal ... resolutions ... not 352 x 480 ... now if its 720 x 480 ... yes much nicer

The reason I looked at your post is because I use ... TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5 ... and it works great.

[Nator]

Without reading everything written here ... take a look in the Panasonic DVD Recorder and see what setting for LP is ... I dont have mine set for 8 Hours ... quality does look good but the 8 Hour setting is too much.

It's a Panasonic DVR-EZ475V and the LP mode is 4 hours. Here are the modes that it supports:

XP - 1 hour
SP - 2 hours
LP - 4 hours
EP - 6 or 8 hours (depends on a setting)

I chose LP because I figure I get very acceptable quality without an excessive amount of space being used. I know that to use EP mode, even at the 6 hour setting, might be chancing it too much. Besides, with the 4 hour setting, I'm able to get an entire week easy with 'room to spare' so to speak. If there was a setting to achieve 3 hours, then I would use that as it would let me get 5 episodes (I set it to start early and end late so I have a buffer to ensure I get the entire show).

As I am a packrat with dwindling space and have been ripping the DVD's to images, I might just use V2M to extract the episodes as that would use much less space. The reason I say that is that the image is 4gb regardless of it being one episode or seven episodes. So if I use V2M to convert the videos to individual MPG's, then I will have only the episodes without the extra space that may likely be empty space. I'm just hoping that I can get this all working, preferably with a (decent) free MPG cutter, as I am limited on funds. Then I could really free up some space. Of course, i need to do that with other stuff anyway, but that's another story.

The reason I looked at your post is because I use ... TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5 ... and it works great.

I like it myself. IMO, it's one of the nicest and easiest programs to use. At least for the editing. Being able to navigate around to do cuts is wonderful. The encoding section on the other hand, that's where it gets me you have to almost be fully knowledgeable on how to use it all in order to make the right choices on the various options.

[usually_quiet]

The user interface for VideoReDo Plus is different and takes some getting used to. Once you do, it is very easy to make precise cuts. I navigate based on what I see in VideoReDo's video display. I would not rely on timecodes taken from another editor for exact positioning of cuts.

I should have been more precise with what I meant, but I thought you would have realized what I meant. When I tried it with VRD, I did the cuts as I normally would have and then saved it to a new (finalized) file. When playing that file, if I let it play without skipping at all, the timing is the same as one of the encoded files from VMW5. However, in that same file, if I navigate at all, the timing is off.

For example, let's say that I let the video play for 30 seconds and right at the 15 second mark, there is a visual change (where the camera angle has changed). If I navigate back to that 15 second mark, that same camera angle change won't happen until the 20 second mark. (It seems the difference in time grows as you get further into the video).

So it's not that I'm expecting things to be exactly the same in two different editors. It's the resulting video that is acting weird. However as I mentioned in my previous post (it was an edit and you may have not noticed it since your post came a few minutes later), the same thing is happening when I use ME3 (TMPGEnc MPEG Editor 3).

VRD is taking some getting use to and there are some things that I think could be better about it, but for what I'm trying to do, I believe I have it figured out well enough. I thought I had an option enabled to create chapters at cuts (in VRD) but it appears that I either don't, or it's just not working. Aside from that and the timing thing, it seems to be doing a good job.

Play and navigate through the edited files using what? VideoReDo? A software player (and which one)? A DVD player that can play .mpg files?

So, I still don't understand what you mean, and I doubt that anyone else does. You use too many pronouns and not enough nouns.

The chapters VideoReDo creates are exported in a text file or XML file, and intended to be used for DVD authoring. I don't use the feature, and don't know if it works in the demo version.

I still would prefer to re-encode to make the file smaller, but as the resulting videos are running 415-425mbmb in size, that's not too bad. At that rate, I should be able to fit about 50 to 52 videos on a BR disc. No where near as nice as over 100 videos at 180mb each, but not a huge deal if it's easier to handle this way.

Good Blu-Ray 25GB media costs $1 to $2 per disc. I would not waste my time re-encoding 100 recordings so I could put 100 episodes on a disc instead of 50. That is too much trouble to go to just to save to save $2 and have 100 poorer-quality re-encodes conveniently organized on one disc as opposed to 2.

[Nator]

Play and navigate through the edited files using what? VideoReDo? A software player (and which one)? A DVD player that can play .mpg files?

Using VRD to edit the file and create a finalized product. Then using MPC to play the file. When left alone, the time shown remains fine. If I attempt to navigate (move the seeker bar or use the arrow keys to move forward or backward), then the video is behind. I don't mean that the audio is out of sync, as that's not an issue. It's just the entire thing is out of sync (video/audio are synced together just fine, what I see matches what I hear). Some places, it's roughly 9 or 10 seconds off/behind, while other places is maybe only 2 seconds off.

Since this happens regardless of using VRD or ME3, I'm going to say that it's likely not a bug in either software but something in the stream that is causing it. If it was just one editor giving me this result but not the other, then I'd believe it's the editor. I'm sure you'll agree that it makes sense.

The chapters VideoReDo creates are exported in a text file or XML file, and intended to be used for DVD authoring. I don't use the feature, and don't know if it works in the demo version.

I thought perhaps it would do it within the video. It was something I liked about trying to convert to MKV, which if I can still do that then that would be great. The ability to jump to different 'chapters' within the episode isn't a major concern, just something nice if possible, otherwise it's "oh well".

Good Blu-Ray 25GB media costs $1 to $2 per disc. I would not waste my time re-encoding 100 recordings so I could put 100 episodes on a disc instead of 50. That is too much trouble to go to just to save to save $2 and have 100 poorer-quality re-encodes conveniently organized on one disc as opposed to 2.

I've got a few remaining on one spindle and then two more spindles of 25 discs. If I were to use them as much as I really could, I'd be through that already. I go with a 22gb estimate when planning to make sure I will have enough room, since the 25GB is really 25 billion and not 25 actual GB. (Comes to about 23.3GB of actual space.) If I were to go with the real capacity, I could probably fit 55 to 57 episodes. Would rather assume 50 to 52 though, since it's better to have more room than anticipated.

If you know where to look, you can actually get BR's for less than $1 each. The two unopened spindles that I have, I paid $36 for ($18 each) and they're inkjet printable. Not a bad deal and it's a good brand from what I recall (Ridata).

[usually_quiet]

Using VRD to edit the file and create a finalized product. Then using MPC to play the file. When left alone, the time shown remains fine. If I attempt to navigate (move the seeker bar or use the arrow keys to move forward or backward), then the video is behind. I don't mean that the audio is out of sync, as that's not an issue. It's just the entire thing is out of sync (video/audio are synced together just fine, what I see matches what I hear). Some places, it's roughly 9 or 10 seconds off/behind, while other places is maybe only 2 seconds off.

Since this happens regardless of using VRD or ME3, I'm going to say that it's likely not a bug in either software but something in the stream that is causing it. If it was just one editor giving me this result but not the other, then I'd believe it's the editor. I'm sure you'll agree that it makes sense.

I don't use MPC. I use MPCHC or VLC. I see minor seeking issues with a lot of files, some never touched by VideoReDo (or VOB2MPG). I don't worry about it.

I thought perhaps it would do it within the video. It was something I liked about trying to convert to MKV, which if I can still do that then that would be great. The ability to jump to different 'chapters' within the episode isn't a major concern, just something nice if possible, otherwise it's "oh well".

The .mpg container does not support chapters, so it isn't possible for VideoReDo to add them.



I looked through my DVD storage boxes, where I found a DVD using 720x480 16:9, and finished testing my samples.

I don't see any evidence that VOB2MPG has a bug that changes the reported resolution in the .mpg files it exports.
The resolution I see for the all the VOBs, and the .mpgs from VOB2MPG agrees for every possible NTSC DVD-compatible resolution. I don't see the point in downloading and installing the trial version of TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5 for more tests. VideoReDo, VOB2MPG, Windows Explorer, and MediaInfo all agree on the resolution for my sample VOBs and the .mpgs created from them and I have already spent enough time on this. You needn't bother uploading a sample on my account.

Your LP mode recordings from a Panasonic DMR-EZ475V are 720x480 resolution. I think lacywest already confirmed that is what his DMR-EZ475V DVD recorder produces in LP mode.

[Nator]

I don't use MPC. I use MPCHC or VLC. I see minor seeking issues with a lot of files, some never touched by VideoReDo (or VOB2MPG). I don't worry about it.

To be specific, I use MPCHC 1.5.3.3819. While looking at the feature set for V2M, I see that the pro version offers recalculating GOP timecodes. That could have something to do with it, but shouldn't there be a way to 'fix' the finalized MPG files so that the times are proper, if that's indeed the situation? I'm more interested in a solution rather than the cause.

The .mpg container does not support chapters, so it isn't possible for VideoReDo to add them.

I had a feeling that would be the case.

I don't see any evidence that VOB2MPG has a bug that changes the reported resolution in the .mpg files it exports.
The resolution I see for the all the VOBs, and the .mpgs from VOB2MPG agrees for every possible NTSC DVD-compatible resolution. I don't see the point in downloading and installing the trial version of TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works 5 for more tests. VideoReDo, VOB2MPG, Windows Explorer, and MediaInfo all agree on the resolution for my sample VOBs and the .mpgs created from them and I have already spent enough time on this. You needn't bother uploading a sample on my account.

Your LP mode recordings from a Panasonic DMR-EZ475V are 720x480 resolution. I think lacywest already confirmed that is what his DMR-EZ475V DVD recorder produces in LP mode.

This is why I offered to provide you with a couple of VOBs, so you could try it with the same data for a more reliable source.

As for lacywest, they said they have a Panasonic DVR, they didn't say they have the same model I have. In their profile, they mention a different model number.

Since V2M reports the streams as being 352x480, I'm inclined to think that it's 352 and not 704 or 720. I just tried it with another DVD (actual movie) and it's reporting 720 for that. Basically, I'm thinking that the DVD (my recordings) really is 352 even though it'd be nice if it were 720.