Convert container without re-encoding

[Coises]

I have a feeling I'm asking a dumb question --- the kind that come when you know just enough to get confused --- but, here goes:

I was just converting a *.flv video with WinFF and noticed something that bothered me.

The reason I wanted to convert it was that (at least on my system) *.flv only plays when embedded in a web page. It won't play in Windows Media Player, nor will it play anywhere by double-clicking. What I noticed on converting to *.mp4 with WinFF was that the source codecs and the target codecs appeared to be the same: H.264 and AAC.

So my question is, is it possible to convert the container from *.flv to something usable, like *.avi or *.mp4, without re-encoding the video and audio? Or am I misunderstanding what containers and codecs actually are?

[guns1inger]

Not all containers can contain all video and audio types or combinations. Many containers have specific restrictions, or if they do have workarounds, these may not be reliable or supported by all players or converters.

The simplest way to find out is to use something like Xvid4PSP or AVI Demux to try to swap containers. if your source has a combination that is not allowed then you will be able to alter just that stream (e.g. re-encode the audio) to suit.

Another alternative is to get a better player. Windows Media Player tends to be pretty limited in it's range of abilities. Installing FFDShow will allow it to play a wider range of formats, however there are far smarter players out there that will play pretty much anything. I like The KM Player, and use it to play FLV files off the HDD, as well as pretty much everything else I have. MPC HC or VLC are also pretty good.

[Coises]

The simplest way to find out is to use something like Xvid4PSP or AVI Demux to try to swap containers. if your source has a combination that is not allowed then you will be able to alter just that stream (e.g. re-encode the audio) to suit.

Thank you for your help. Unfortunately, both of those failed to process the *.flv files. AVIDemux complained that it couldn't find the audio codec; Xvid4PSP just failed to load the files at all.

Having discovered that the *.mp4 file I created with WinFF wouldn't open in Windows Media Player anyway, I decided to try creating a new preset in WinFF for an AVI, using the FFmpeg command line:
-f avi -vcodec copy -acodec copy
which, at first, looked like it worked: the processing time was very fast, making it clear that it had done a direct stream copy without decoding and re-encoding the video and audio streams.

Unfortunately, while the resulting *.avi plays perfectly in the WinFF player, it crashes Windows Media Player with no explanation, just the "Would you like to send a report to Microsoft?" dialog.

My primary reason for wanting to stick with Windows Media Player is practical portability. Yes, I realize that at a deeper level, Microsoft Windows is the assassin of portability. Still, as a practical matter, what will play either out-of-the-box or with at most an automated codec download on any XP-or-later Windows system, I can expect to play almost anywhere. Unfair, but true. QuickTime is pretty ubiquitous as well, but much of what I already have won't play on it, and if the library and playlist features of WMP11 are there, I sure don't see them.

[usta]

Seeing how the applications crash, I wonder, do you have any codecs or codec packs installed (k-lite, ffdshow, etc...)?

[Coises]

Seeing how the applications crash, I wonder, do you have any codecs or codec packs installed (k-lite, ffdshow, etc...)?

The only codec / codec pack explicitly installed is DivX Codec 6.8.5 and DivX Plus DirectShow filters. I have PowerDVD installed, and presumably that has installed mpeg-2 and ac-3 codecs, since I can play DVDs in WMP11 as well as in PowerDVD. (Usually PowerDVD works best for DVDs, but rarely one will play correctly in WMP11 but out-of-sync and/or aspect ratio in PowerDVD.) If I allowed WMP11 to download any codecs directly, I wouldn't have a record of doing that, and I undoubtedly would have forgotten doing it.

[Ai Haibara]

Another thing you could try is using FLV Extract to demux the video and audio streams in the FLV, and then have AVIDemux (with both audio and video set to Copy) remux them into an .mp4.

[poisondeathray]

Another thing you could try is using FLV Extract to demux the video and audio streams in the FLV, and then have AVIDemux (with both audio and video set to Copy) remux them into an .mp4.

FLV extract is a good idea, but the Coises might have problems opening up raw streams with avidemux. I would use yamb (mp4box) to mux the extracted streams into .mp4 container , or mkvtoolnix to mux in .mkv .

Also if avidemux complained about the audio in .flv while directly opening it , it might be a good idea to identify exactly what the streams are first. i.e. use mediainfo

My primary reason for wanting to stick with Windows Media Player is practical portability. Yes, I realize that at a deeper level, Microsoft Windows is the assassin of portability. Still, as a practical matter, what will play either out-of-the-box or with at most an automated codec download on any XP-or-later Windows system, I can expect to play almost anywhere. Unfair, but true. QuickTime is pretty ubiquitous as well, but much of what I already have won't play on it, and if the library and playlist features of WMP11 are there, I sure don't see them.

This is not quite correct. WMP is dependent on the directshow filters installed on that particular system. So what plays on 1 system might not play on another. A better choice if "portablilty" is a concern is a player that is self contained with modern codecs and splitters. e.g. VLC has a portable usb version, and an installed version. It doesn't rely on system installed codecs. If you relied on WMP for "portability", you are in for a lot of work.

The library system of vlc, mpchc and kmplayer might not be as comprehensive as WMP11, but they support way more types of codecs/formats with none of the fiddling around like you are doing now. They play "right out of the box", although mpchc sometimes needs some configuration of internal filters. kmplayer nad mpchc do have playlists.

[ltiscareno]

Hello, I'm just a regular gal...no real knowledge about this stuff, but want to convert a flv file to avi for the same reason as you...to play on windows media player. I found an old post that recommended using Riva software. I followed the instructions to a T, but got the message: encoding failed due to not supported combinatino of parameters or not supported codec.

did you ever figure out how to do this, or know what that error message means? thanks.

[DarrellS]

Just install a player that will play FLV files...

MPC-HC
VLC
FLV Player 2.0

applian FLV Player

http://www.applian.com/flvplayer/download_flv_player.php

[ltiscareno]

Yes, I have RealPlayer but i want to be able to watch the videos with Windows MediaPlayer.

[Gavino]

Install ffdshow and a FLV file splitter.

See http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/how_to_play_flv_files.cfm.

[trodas]

I usually open the FLV files into VirtualDub (there is a good input filter for FLV) and then choose direct stream copy and save the file(s) as AVI.
Works perfectly.
Sometimes it is good to reencode the audio, but there is no lowering of the video quality - no reencode.

FFmpeg could be a good choice to similar WEBM convert - thx for the suggestion, I tried:

ffmpeg -i x.webm -f avi -vcodec copy -acodec copy x.avi

...but the resulting file jumps from 29MB (WEBM) to 658MB (AVI) - obviously the avi contained did not like the VP8 video:

Duration: 00:09:53.96, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 395 kb/s
Stream #0:0: Video: vp8, yuv420p, 480x360, SAR 1:1 DAR 4:3, 29.97 fps, 29.97
tbr, 1k tbn, 1k tbc (default)
Stream #0:1: Audio: vorbis, 44100 Hz, stereo, fltp (default)
Output #0, avi, to 'x.avi':
Metadata:
ISFT : Lavf55.0.100
Stream #0:0: Video: vp8 (VP80 / 0x30385056), yuv420p, 480x360 [SAR 1:1 DAR 4
:3], q=2-31, 29.97 fps, 59.94 tbn, 59.94 tbc (default)
Stream #0:1: Audio: vorbis (oV[0][0] / 0x566F), 44100 Hz, stereo (default)
Stream mapping:


Suxx, but I get the video in 480x360 resolution, not the crappy 320x240 one (saved from YewTube in mp4 as 320x240, only in webm is the 480x360 resolution). So after some work (audio does not work, so I took it from the webm file (ffmpeg -i x.webm -vn -f wav x.wav) encoded it (lame -q 0 -b 128 -m j --lowpass 19.5 x.wav x.mp3) and then used as "audio from other file" in VirtualDub) and opening the file using the DirectShow codec (because I can play the resulted avi it in BSplayer, yet slowly and w/o audio) - I was finally able to pick the piece I wanted from the video with the highest resolution possible.

Sadly I have to reencode the VP8 to Xvid

[DarrellS]

No need to open a five year old thread. Better to start a new thread. Things have changed in the last five years and most flv are just h264/aac in an flv container which can be fixed with ffmpeg. I usually put all these h264/aac flv in a separate folder with ffmpeg and use this .bat file to place the streams in an mp4 container which they were meant to be in...

for %%a in ("*.flv") do ffmpeg -i "%%a" -vcodec copy -acodec copy "%%~na.mp4"
pause

You do not want to use avi container for h264/aac or vp8/vorbis. Webm is an vp8-9/vorbis.mkv with webm extension. If you want to save yourself headaches with the newer youtube videos, you can use a couple of extensions for Firefox. Youtube High Definition to automatically play the best version and Youtube Video and Audio Downloader which allows you to download whichever file type you wish. Chrome blocks youtube addons since Google owns Youtube. Another issue with Chrome and youtube is the html5 player. Audio refuses to play on some newer files. This only applies to Chrome (Firefox and IE both play). Install "Disable Youtube™ HTML5 Player" add-on to get these files to play the audio.