What's the difference between Surveillance and Home & Entertainment DVR

[wan2no]

I would like to know if there is a difference. I am looking
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/512378-REG/TiVo_TCD649080_DVR_S2_DT_Digital_Vide...specifications

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/556364-REG/ARM_Electronics_RT4500G_RT4500G_4_Cha....html#features

I understand the latter has more interfaces and it also has a network interface but video wise, does it show better quality and higher resolution.

I would like to set up a video network, that is 3 cameras in 3 areas hooked up to one tv. how can I set it up?
I would like to set up a dvr to archive the video. Can I use the dvr as a video interface to the tv?

[redwudz]

The first unit appears to be just a DVR/Tivo box for recording probably in MPEG format, I didn't read that far. I also suspect the web interface is more for remote control, not viewing. Not really much good for surveillance use.

The second is a surveillance DVR that records in MPEG4 format, usually H.264. The quality probably isn't as good as the first unit, but it can record a lot more video, especially if you are using multiple cameras. It probably has quality adjustments settings, so you can get decent quality at the expense of larger file sizes. I don't know if it can show three cameras at the same time or alternately, but probably can. That's done with a switcher. The stand alone switchers I've used can display four camera shots on one screen, or alternate views from each camera.

Many surveillance DVRs also have motion detection, so you don't record just empty video, but video with some movement or someone moving it it. Saves a lot of drive space. They can also be set up to alert you when there is motion detected, by phone or other means. Then you can log onto the DVR from a remote site and view the video.

You might look here for a better selection of surveillance equipment and better prices: http://www.supercircuits.com/ I've used them a lot and they carry about everything conceivable for surveillance equipment.

[Cornucopia]

Plus, if you're looking for a box that can take multiple video inputs, record them, and matrix them (as PIP, quad-split, etc) onto one output image, plus motion-detection, you might do better building a PC that can do it all. Could be done with multiple webcams, or better yet with multiple DV cams and Firewire ports, then use cominations of Enosoft DV processor(s), AVISynth Scrips, multiple instances of Vdub, etc. and you could have a quite capable machine with lots of storage space for not a lot of money (esp. compared to a similarly outfitted/capable special-purpose box).

Scott

[wan2no]

well its not actually surveillance that i want it for. Its for viewing. Its chess tournament I am doing. Chess is often a sport of silence but is hard to achieve when you have a good match going on and everyone is crowding the area; hence, i was going to setup a camera and in a waiting room where there is a tv i would have hooked the camera to that. However, i would like to also record the games, which, i can either record them with a dv tape or i can record them via dvr. My issue with the tape is, just in case it wasn't a good game there would be no waste of tapes.

Providing all the aforementioned which dvr would you recommend. It is not for surveillance use as much as it is for entertainment purposes

[jagabo]

The security DVR probably also has the option of low frame rates to save disc space. Probably OK for a chess game. It doesn't have analog, ATSC, or QAM tuners.

[wan2no]

ok cool. i don't mind saving the disc space tho. most ppl don't have hd yet and i see i can at least get 80 hours sd out of the TIVO and as Redwudz said it would have better quality. so i don't mind replacing hard drives over and over. Here comes the next question, can you replace hard drives in a DVR

[wan2no]

ok i see downside to the TIVO's. there are no outputs so even if i jack the cameras into the tivo's there's no output to jack into the tv

[wan2no]

checked the supercircuits.com site; however, i do not want a dvr that is too sophisticated. The whole record on motion is not what i want. I just want a dvr that is going to record the footage that i have a normal dv camcorder viewing. The same input that the dvr is receiving, i would like it to output to a tv screen through either hdmi or rca cables. If it is that the dvrs compress the data then video may slow down if it is recording and compress as well as outputting. Next thing, I would like that when everything is recorded that I can retrieve the data via esata firewire or usb. So if that is the case is the Surveillance dvrs really necessary or can i use the tivos

if i use the tivos would have subscribe to tivo to use it or i can use it for my own purposes.

[Cornucopia]

Ok, now I REALLY don't understand you...

A chess tournament is basically a series of long-lasting still states punctuated by quick movement to the next state. And contrary to usual video footage, the "movement" part really isn't the interesting part--that is the position/status of the pieces during their still state. Sure sounds like still pictures (from directly overhead at that) would best serve you. Or a motion-detecting videocam. This could be with timestamping or not. And unless you want to record your conversations or the ambience, there isn't really much need for audio either...
Ever wonder why one of the first computer games was chess? Because it allows for such LOW media/action/movement/graphics requirements. Yeah, a modern-day chess app looks tons better than a late-70's text-based game, but they PLAY the same way (unless you play against a computer--that has improved).

Hell, you could even find (or build) a chessboard with contacts under it that just keeps track of placement of each piece, and "synthesize" the fancy graphics for it. Much less to record.

Anything else seems to be a bit narcissistic.

Plus, I've noticed that you have a history of asking these absurd questions, almost for the fun of it. Even when most of the time, the obvious answer is already easily available on this site. What's going on there?

Scott

>>>>>>>>
edit: Example...you started off this thread wanting to know the difference between 2 DVRs.
Then you wanted a way to work different images into a video network.
Later you wanted to figure out a way to best record a chess match.
Then you started asking about "swapping" capability in DVR harddrives.
What do you really want? And please, no more "bait & switch" tactics.

[wan2no]

thanks for the response

call me niave but the only thing i got from that is that the surveillance camera and dvr would be best because audio is not needed.

But i want audio so i guess the TIVO dvr and a camera would do. Ok...

The next thing is where are these articles? I have looked around and haven't seen any pertaining to this question.

Next thing if you looked through my history and looked at alll my "absurd" questions why didn't you say "look dumb a$$, the article is here. Can't you read". Criticism like that will be most appreciated, thank you

Now, my topic was the difference with the home dvrs, TIVO, and surveillance dvrs. I got two responses that peaked my interest so inquired on the matter of dvrs a little further by giving the reason why i wanted to know the difference. Never did I change the topic, it is still asking about dvrs. So from what i see, it can't be a bait and switch

[Cornucopia]

I try to steer away from the "Look, dumba$$..." kind of comments when I can help it.

Well, regarding the original topic ('cuz it still looks to me like you veered off--if I were a Mod, I would have suggested making an additional thread), I would summarize the general difference being that Surveillance DVRs have more "trick" features (time-lapse, muliticam input/output, open timestamping) and are built to be more rugged than a standard consumer DVR. Otherwise, they would be very similar in features (models vary of course). With few exceptions, I'm pretty sure audio is available on both categories, it's just much less often used in a surveillace situation (because while they may have multiple cameras, they rarely have multiple microphones/mixer inputs).

I still think you'd get much more bang for your buck by getting/building a PC with DVR software, etc.

Scott

[wan2no]

ok cool. I would try to make my topics less vague

[lildeee]

I am shopping for a surveillance DVR - how can I tell if a DVR both records and streams at H.264? And do you know how to build a DVR like this from bare bones? I'm trying to save a lot of money.
www.aventuratechnologies.com is trying to sell me a $700 H.264 DVR with 250GB, 4 channels, with 120FPS with their cameras. Redwudz, do you know if this is a good price?


[quote="redwudz"]The first unit appears to be just a DVR/Tivo box for recording probably in MPEG format, I didn't read that far. I also suspect the web interface is more for remote control, not viewing. Not really much good for surveillance use.

The second is a surveillance DVR that records in MPEG4 format, usually H.264. The quality probably isn't as good as the first unit, but it can record a lot more video, especially if you are using multiple cameras. It probably has quality adjustments settings, so you can get decent quality at the expense of larger file sizes. I don't know if it can show three cameras at the same time or alternately, but probably can. That's done with a switcher. The stand alone switchers I've used can display four camera shots on one screen, or alternate views from each camera.

Many surveillance DVRs also have motion detection, so you don't record just empty video, but video with some movement or someone moving it it. Saves a lot of drive space. They can also be set up to alert you when there is motion detected, by phone or other means. Then you can log onto the DVR from a remote site and view the video.