eyetv200 to dvd...

[dvdguy24]

I've been having a strange issue putting my eyetv tv shows that i've recorded on DVD - I have iLife 05' so I have iMovie HD and iDVD. Eyetv records in Mpeg-2 - therefore as most of you know it has to be converted to DV for use in iMovie and iDVD - but the video looks funny during playback - the if the people in the video are still it's fine - once they move - even the slightest bit, I see a shaking like outline around them - it's really hard on the eyes though. I think it may be from starting out as Mpeg-2 converting to DV, and then back to Mpeg-2 for DVD. Could this be the issue? If so, would you recommend Toast for copying my tv shows to DVD? If I understand correctly, Toast let's you edit Mpeg-2 clips without any conversion right? iMovie and iDVD do fine if I just convert DV to mpeg-2 for dvd.

Thanks in advace for the suggestions/solutions to the problem...i'd also like to know if anyone else has experienced this??

[pianoman719]

Unless you need to do heavy editing with transitions, titling and so forth, you should not export your Eye TV 200 captures to DV. Instead of using iMovie to edit, see if you can use an MPEG2 editor like MPEG Streamclip (freeware, but requires the $20 Apple QuickTime MPEG2 Playback Component), or Capty MPEG Edit EX ($50). These apps will let you do basic cuts-only editing (like cutting out commercials, or putting together a highlights reel.) Also, have you tried the editor that's integrated into the Eye TV software? Pretty basic, but should let you do simple cuts and export the edited program to standard .mpg (which doesn't lose any quality.)

Toast can help you because it will let you burn an .mpg to DVD *without* having to convert to DV, edit in iMovie, and re-encode in iDVD. But Toast is *not* an editor.

Maybe your workflow should look something like this:

- Capture using Eye TV 200 (saves in proprietary format)

- Export to standard .mpg (this doesn't lose any quality)

- Cuts-only editing in MPEG Streamclip or Capty MPEG Edit EX
(this still doesn't lose any quality)

- Burn to DVD using Toast
(still no quality loss!)

When thinking about your workflow, you need to distinguish carefully between things that will re-encode your original Eye TV capture (causing quality loss), and things which only strip out unwanted segments, or repackage the files in a different kind of container (no re-encoding, so no quality loss). The workflow described above never re-encodes, so the DVD should look just like your original Eye TV capture.

If you *do* need to do a project with heavy editing, transitions, titles, etc., try this workflow:

- Capture using Eye TV 200 (saves in proprietary format)

- Export to standard .mpg (this doesn't lose any quality)

- Open .mpg in MPEG Streamclip, and Export to DV. This will re-encode using the DV codec, but I would trust MPEG Streamclip to do it right more than I trust the Eye TV software.

- In iMovie, create a new empty project, name it and save it. Then quit iMovie. On your hard drive, move the .dv files that Streamclip exported into the iMovie project folder you just named and saved, in the subfolder labeled "Media." (This works in iMovie 4. Does it still work in iMovie 5?) If that last timesaving trick doesn't work, then just import the .dv files into iMovie for editing.

- The rest you know: Edit in iMovie and send to iDVD. But if you use MPEG Streamclip to do the Export to DV, does it solve the problem with the shaky outline? Let us know.

-Pianoman

[dvdguy24]

first off, thank you very much for the suggestions - I will try some of them tomorrow - and i'll try the one without buying Toast first, just to see if I can get by without it - and i'll definitely post back with my results/progress. One thing I did after posting was made a disk image and played it on the apple dvd player - it looked fine - so I burned the image with disk utility and the result on a set top dvd player was the same.

Like I said, i'll definitely work on it and let you know.

thanks again.

oh, I do have the mpeg 2 componet as well as mpeg streamclip. One thing I can't do is open an eyetv recording with Quicktime though - It seems I have to play it through eyetv unless I export it - regardless of the mpeg2 component.

[pianoman719]

Yes, you have to Export from EyeTV because EyeTV uses a proprietary file structure to save MPEG2 recordings. Just Export to MPEG Program Stream. There is no re-encoding (unlike DV) so no loss of quality. When you Export to MPEG Program Stream, EyeTV will just copy the MPEG2 into a different kind of container that QuickTime likes better. Then MPEG Streamclip should be fine to open it; so should QuickTime Player. (You mentioned you already have the necessary Apple QuickTime MPEG2 Playback Component.)

MPEG Program Stream = 1 file with video and audio "muxed" (multiplexed) together. Mac file extension .mpg or .mpeg.

MPEG Elementary Streams = 2 separate files for video and audio, such as .m2v (video) and .mp2 (audio).

(Good to know because some external apps want a Program Stream, while others want Elementary Streams.)

Read the MPEG Streamclip help file carefully. MPEG2 video uses GOPs (groups of pictures) which are about a half-second apart. When editing in Streamclip, use the up/down arrows to go to the start of a GOP. Always set in/out points at the start of a GOP. That will give you cleaner edits.

When you finish editing in Streamclip, do a Cmd-F to fix any timecode breaks caused by the editing. Then use Convert To MPEG to write out a new file with fresh timecode. Streamclip will insist on using the .mpeg extension, but some authoring apps like to see it as .mpg, so change it to .mpg in the Finder.

If like me you can't afford to spring for Toast at the moment, here are two freeware tools that will let you author simple DVDs from your MPEG2 files:

BitVice Helper Multiplexor
http://www.innobits.se/pubdown/BitViceHelper.sit

Sizzle 0.1
http://www.thefridgeowl.com/sizzle/sizzle0.1.dmg

BitVice Helper likes a Program Stream, but Sizzle 0.1 likes Elementary Streams. So if you want to use Sizzle 0.1, then in MPEG Streamclip, instead of Convert To MPEG, use Demux to M2V and M1A. Then in the Finder, change the extension of the audio file from .m1a to .mp2.

BitVice Helper is very quick and basic, probably like whatever utility you used to create the disc image you burned to DVD. Sizzle 0.1 does a little more. For example, it will let you add chapter markers to a single-title DVD. No menus, but the chapter markers will work when you use the remote. Chapter markers must be in the form:

0:00:00,h:mms,h:mms,h:mms,h:mms,h:mms, etc.

Based on the tools you already own plus freeware, here's a workflow you can try:

- Use EyeTV 200 to record MPEG2 video

- Export as MPEG Program Stream

- Edit in MPEG Streamclip

- When finished editing, do a Cmd-F to fix timecode. Still in Streamclip, play the file and write down where you want your chapter markers. (You can save your chapters markers in a text file, and later paste them into Sizzle 0.1.)

- Still in Streamclip, Demux To M2V and M1A. Then change the .m1a file extension to .mp2.

- Use Sizzle 0.1 to author the DVD. (Check back. I might post a quick guide for Sizzle 0.1.)

- Mount the disk image created by Sizzle, and use Apple DVD Player to open the VIDEO-TS folder and play it.

- When you're satisfied it looks good and the chapter markers are where you want them, quit DVD Player and "eject" (unmount) the disk image.

- Use Disk Utility to burn the disk image file to a blank DVD.

Pianoman

[dvdguy24]

thanks for the suggestions!!

I had a major set back and I wasn't able to try some of the suggestions posted for me - my eyetv 200 actually broke - the other night it was fine, - I turned it off and when I went back to watch tv again, no signal. I even to use a different fire wire but the computer didn't recognize that the eyeTV was plugged in - I went to the apple store and they tested it for me (to make sure it wasn't a computer problem) and they gave me another one. It was simply a bad unit - although it was fine for about 3 months. They were very helpful.

I did let mpeg streamclip make my recording a DV and used that for my iDVD project, but I still got the same results - I know you said mpeg streamclip is probably a better converter than eyeTV itself.

I also played around with the editing in the eyeTV software (just for my future knowledge.)

I'll try more suggestions this weekend - if all else fails, i'll have to spring for Toast - the quality is to good on the eyeTV not to have a good quality DVD in the end.

[macuser25]

EyeTV and Toast are the best way to go from EyeTV to DVD. They are specifically designed to work together.

[pianoman719]

Could you please clarify what it is you're trying to do that requires (?) you to convert to DV for editing, and then back to MPEG2? If it's heavy editing with transitions, titles, etc., I could understand. But if it's just basic cuts-only editing, you should try and do it in an MPEG2 editor so you don't lose two generations of quality (one when exporting to DV, one when re-encoding to MPEG2). Let me play devil's advocate: Persuade me why you have to export and re-encode rather than just doing cuts-only editing and burning the MPEG2 to DVD with no loss in quality.

If you *do* need heavy editing, keep in mind that the DV codec uses a constant bitrate. But there are other codecs you can export to which use variable compression and also a higher bitrate, so they may look better than DV. For example, in MPEG Streamclip try exporting to MJPEG B using the highest quality setting (least compression). Then open the exported .mov in Streamclip and see how it plays. Does this solve the "shaky outline" problem you're getting with DV?

With the DV exports, does the "shaky outline" occur when you play the video at normal speed in iMovie, or only when you look at individual frames? If individual frames, it could just be interlacing. You might have EyeTV set to play back deinterlaced, but then when you play the exported DV in iMovie, you see the interlacing (which is needed for playback on most TVs).

If it's not too difficult, you might try posting us a single frame from the original MPEG2 file, and the same frame with the "shaky outline" as it appears in the DV export. Maybe if we see it, we'll know if it's just interlacing, or some other problem we recognize. Let me clarify some points:

- If you need to do heavy editing, and you like the look of footage exported to MJPEG B a whole lot better than DV, this raises a different issue: You won't be able to edit MJPEG B footage in iMovie. You'll need some other kind of editor, like an old copy of Adobe Premiere run from Classic (or shell out for Final Cut Pro).

- Toast is very convenient, but ideally all you want to do is burn your pre-encoded EyeTV MPEG2 files to DVD. The actual MPEG2 footage is not going to look any better from Toast than from Bitvice Helper or Sizzle 0.1. Toast is just more convenient, has more features, will give you some basic menus, etc.

- On the other hand, if you *do* need to do heavy editing, with transitions, titles, etc, then Toast 7 will give you a better re-encode than iDVD because it will compress the audio to AC3, leaving more bandwidth for higher bitrate video.

- When you make EyeTV recordings, do you know in advance whether you're going to do heavy editing that will require exporting to an editing format like DV? Because if you know you're going to do heavy editing, you can use EyeTV's Custom settings to record a high bitrate MPEG2 that is out of spec for DVD.

- Even EyeTV's highest quality preset (High DVD 90 min) is based on the assumption that you're going to burn the MPEG2 directly to DVD. So it uses a max video bitrate of 8.0 Mbps. But if you choose the Custom option, you can specify (at least in theory):

Constant Bit Rate
15.0 Mbps
I-frames only
Audio: 384 kbps, 48.0 kHz

If the EyeTV 200 hardware cooperates, you may get a high quality MPEG2 that makes a better export to DV or MJPEG B. But you shouldn't burn that kind of high rate MPEG2 directly to DVD, because the bitrate will be out of spec (might not play in set top boxes). You would only record such high bitrate MPEG's when you know you're going to export to another codec for editing.

- If you're mostly doing projects that require heavy editing, you may benefit from getting a DV converter box, such as the Canopus ADVC-110. Then you'll be able to edit your recordings directly in iMovie without having to re-encode from MPEG2 to DV. You would only re-encode once, after you finished editing in iMovie. The difference is this:

Current EyeTV "Heavy Editing" Method

encode TV to MPEG2
re-encode MPEG2 to DV
edit in DV
re-encode DV to MPEG2

Canopus ADVC-110 "Heavy Editing" Method

encode TV to DV
edit in DV
re-encode DV to MPEG2

-Pianoman

[dvdguy24]

Ok,

This is what I would like to do:

Tape a tv show with EyeTV, and then burn to dvd - the only editing that needs to be done is taking out commercials - I don't really even care about transitions because these are just for me - not for anything special.

The shakey outline only occurs on the finished DVD project - If I watch it in preview mode in iMovie, it looks fine (it also looks great while editing) - I also made a disc image before burning it to DVD, and the apple dvd player played it fine - once burned on DVD - this is where the outline in the pictures occur. I use Taiyo Yuden DVD-R's also.

I also have the Canopus ADVC-110 - and I've done many projects with that - I can capture tv as well because it's hooked up to my VCR - BUT, the Canopus isn't quite as fancy as EyeTV in the sence that it doesn't allow me to schedule recordings. Regular DV - exported from iMovie to iDVD look great for me. It's when I turn the high quality mpeg 2 to DV I get this problem (but as said - it's only on the finished product). I also checked it on other dvd players just to see if that was the case.

If you think it might help, do you want me to capture the look of the bad dvd and upload it? So you can see what it looks like. I'll give that a shot if you think it could help.

Also, Just want to make sure I have this right - you're saying that if I make an even higher quality (custom) mpeg from eyetv, the export to DV will be even better? that makes sense - but I want to make sure I understood it correctly.

thanks.

[dvdguy24]

I just went into eyeTV's prefferences and yes I can change my mpeg to custom settings - the exact way you said to - I can also do mpeg1 and mpeg4 also. I should try playing around with transfering those to DV to see if I get the same outline in the DVD.

Question? what is "I frames only"? what will this do?

I'm new at this - as you could probably tell.

[Case]

what is "I frames only"? what will this do?

Two ways to encode video:
(1) Spatial Compression (Intra-frame). I-frames only: Each frame is encoded without dependencies on other frames. Common examples: M-JPEG and DV. Pro: Good for advanced editing. Con: Big files.
(2) Temporal Compression (Inter-frame). Combination of I-frames (intra-frames), P-frames (predicted frames) and possibly B-frames (bidirectional predicted frames): Redundancies across a group of pictures over time is removed. Common examples: MPEG-1/2/4, Real, WMV. Pro: Better compression/smaller file size. Con: Advanced editing, like transitions, is not practical and may be unsupported by editors.

[pianoman719]

If you only want to cut out commercials and burn to DVD, then do *NOT* export your MPEG2 recordings to DV, MPJEG B, or any other non MPEG2 codec. To cut out the commercials, use an MPEG2 editor such as:

- the built-in EyeTV editor
- MPEG Streamclip
- Capty MPEG Edit EX

Then author the MPEG2 to DVD using Toast, BitVice Helper, or Sizzle.

If you're doing a project that requires heavy editing, you're better off bringing in the footage in DV format with your Canopus ADVC-110. If you need to use EyeTV because of the built-in tuner and scheduling, then yes, by setting a high custom bitrate you should get a higher quality MPEG2 which will make a better export to DV. "I-frames only" captures each frame as a new picture not dependent on any other frames.

The "shaky outline" problem that you say appears only when you play the DVD in a set top box has me stumped. I don't know if it's worth your time to try and upload some sort of picture of the problem.

An easier thing you could do is use Streamclip to open a .VOB file containing MPEG2 footage from the finished DVD, do a Cmd-I to get info about the stream, and paste that up for us. Maybe we'll see something out of whack. Are you using the latest update of the EyeTV Software?

-Pianoman

[dvdguy24]

I'm doing a test DVD right now with the higher quality mpeg 2 to DV - i'll let you know how that looks...

I don't know if this problem is something a picture could show - it's quite strange - a video would probably help you better to see what i'm explaining - if all else fails, i'll just upload a clip.

let's see how this works - and if it doesn't help, i'll try and get info on the stream.

again, thanks! it's really appreciated.

oh, and thanks to you also case.

[dvdguy24]

The test gave me the same results.

higher quality mpeg2 to dv - burned in iDVD.

oh, and yes, i'm using the latest update for eyeTV.

[dvdguy24]

Update:

After trying everything suggested, and everything I could think of - I kept getting the same results. Today, I purchased Toast 7, and within minutes of installing it - I was buring eyeTV200 shows that I had taped and the results were GREAT! It really does work well with the tv tuner and i'm very pleased. It's also fast (I guess because it's already Mpeg2). It was nice not to render for 4 hours just to play back something I taped and watch it on tv rather than my computer. It's very compatible and user friendly with eyeTV200.

Just wanted to let everyone know that things went well and thanks again for the help!

[U-d]

I'm having the same problem with my eyetv 250.
I recorded my video from minidv camera using eyetv 250 (MPEG2 high quality), then export it to iMovie HD, do a some little editing to test and share to iDVD and burn. the result is shaky movements on tv.
however, after the editing itself from iMovie HD and export it to quicktime highquality and burn it to toast, the result playback on tv is pretty good, no loss quality.
is there anyway i can use iDVD without losing quality?

[Frobozz]

I'm having the same problem with my eyetv 250.
I recorded my video from minidv camera using eyetv 250 (MPEG2 high quality), then export it to iMovie HD, do a some little editing to test and share to iDVD and burn. the result is shaky movements on tv.
however, after the editing itself from iMovie HD and export it to quicktime highquality and burn it to toast, the result playback on tv is pretty good, no loss quality.
is there anyway i can use iDVD without losing quality?

Your process doesn't make sense to me. If you want to edit in iMovie then you should use iMovie to import the video directly from your DV camcorder. From there you can use Toast or iDVD to encode and burn your DVD.

If you import using the EyeTV 250 you are recording in a format that is not compatible with iMovie or iDVD. If you want to cut undersired segments from the EyeTV capture you can use the EyeTV software to trim those recorded MPEGs. You don't need iMovie for that. Then send those trimmed MPEGs to Toast.

[U-d]

I don't have a firewire cable to import to iMovie, thus I'm using s-video from eyetv250.
The result of capturing from eyetv250 is MPEG2, which cannot be used in iMovie, i know.
But EyeTV gave the option to export to iMovie HD, which I did export, edited, burned but not succesfully watch on TV because of the shaky movements.

The reason why I want to use iMovie and iDVD is because it'm doing a wedding scene and I'm trying to make at least a DVD with menus for pictures and videos with nice template that iDVD provides.

I guess I found out what the problem is and this is how i troubleshoot it:
Camera -> EyeTV250 -> MPEG2 -> burn using Toast = OK (no loss quality on TV)
Camera -> EyeTV250 -> MPEG2 -> export to iMovie HD -> export to DV full quality -> burn using Toast = OK (no loss quality on TV)
Camera -> EyeTV250 -> MPEG2 -> export to iMovie HD -> edited -> export to DV full quality -> burn using Toast = BAD (hakky movement on TV)

before I mentioned that after I did some lil editing iMovie and burn it to Toast (without iDVD), the resultit is still OK, but I was wrong. by just exporting EyeTV to iMovie and do the editing and burn the result and watch in TV is no good.

I'm sorry if I confuse you. But i think i would have to go with some MPEG2 editting software since EyeTV export to DV or iMovie will lose the quality after the editting.

Thanks