Issue on Verbatim DVD+R

[Instant Martian]

Hi guys,
I have burned hundreds of Verbatim DVD-R on my Pioneer DVR-111D with no problem at all.
Recently the store where I use to buy my discs seems to have switched from -R to +R.
I had burned successfully some +R (same DVD writer) in the past and so I bought five 25-discs packs.
I began to use these discs in the last days and, much to my chagrin, my Pioneer drive seems not to like them.
ImgBurn has gave me an error on 3 discs out of 10 (or so) from the first pack.
The error is:

I/O Error!

Device: [1:0:0] PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-111D 1.29 (E:) (ATA)

ScsiStatus: 0x02
Interpretation: Check Condition

CDB: 2A 00 00 00 03 00 00 00 20 00
Interpretation: Write (10) - Sectors: 768 - 799

Sense Area: 70 00 05 00 00 00 00 0E 00 00 00 00 21 02 00 00 00 00
Interpretation: Invalid Address For Write

These are the -R I usually use:

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD-R:MCC 03RG20 ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD-R] - [DVD-R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC 03RG20 ]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,298,496 Sectors = 4.71 GB (4.38 GiB)]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 ]

These are the +R I got recently:

Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:MCC-004-000]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD+R]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC]
Media Type ID : [004]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 ]

Any suggestion on how to solve the problem?

[aedipuss]

could be a bad batch. it happens, especially now with them being made in india and china. what is the country of origin on yours?

[Instant Martian]

How do I discover that?

[vkmast]

Check the package wrap, the country of origin is mentioned in my Verbatims at least.

[jman98]

Those are MCC made discs, so it is unlikely (but not impossible) that they are a "bad batch".

Try burning at a slower speed. This usually fixes this kind of problem temporarily. And do note that your burner is likely reaching the end of its lifetime and will need to be replaced if you are having this kind of issue with Verbatim while burning with ImgBurn. This burner was released 5+ years ago. You've used it up.

[hech54]

My LG burner from about the same era as your Pioneer just recently "bit the big one"....my vote goes to dying burner as well.

[Instant Martian]

@aedipuss & vkmast
I will check asap (I don't have them at hand now).

@jman98 & heck54
What is MCC? Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.?
The -R are MCC too, as far as I can see.
I always burn all my discs at 4x.
About the DVD drive, I don't know if I was just lucky with it or what but I can't remember the last time it failed (I would say never, more likely a couple of times with cheap media).
So sure it is not brand new but it worked perfectly until a few days ago when I switched to the +R discs.
Maybe it is a dying drive, but it's a strange coincidence.
(About LG and Samsung drives, I know people who bought them in the same "era" I got mine and they have changed theirs 3 or 4 times )

Just in case:
1) Is there a way (tests or something) to see if it is a faulty drive?
2) Should I buy a new optical writer, which one would be a good choice? (Possibly another Pioneer).

[GSP_87]

I had a prob w/May 2011 100pk of Verbatim Taiwan DVD+R where my desktop DVD burner would burn a DVD that my old Panasonic could not read, but my Philips that could read CD-R VCD could read fine. Even after doing the firmware update on my desktop burner, same problem. My solution was to use my external Lite-On burner for DVD+R, which would then play fine on old Panasonic and Philips. I'm guessing not all burners have the same burn gameplans that can handle the wide variety of blank DVD discs, and the manufacturers probably don't update the firmware often enough and don't let the consumers know they are available.

[Instant Martian]

@aedipuss & vkmast
I checked, they are Made in China.
Is it good or bad?

@GSP_87
Thanks to you too.
I believe my burner is updated to the most recent (official) firmware, but it is a several years old firmware anyway.

Edit:
Oops, I just re-read the thread:

could be a bad batch. it happens, especially now with them being made in india and china.

So it is bad.
Where do the good ones come from?

[orsetto]

The DVR-111 was among Pioneers best burners: I stocked up on a bunch years ago when they were cheap new-old-stock on eBay. They're pretty durable and easily last a few years with fairly heavy use, but like most optical drives they hit a wall sooner or later and start failing. Each drive brand and model handles "failure" a different way: some graceful, some not. The 111 usually fails "gracefully," i.e. not all at once. The first sign a 111 is dying will be a sudden drop in speed, with all burns going no higher than 6x (you might not have noticed this if you have your software permanently set to 4x for all burns). Other symptoms include inability to read or write CD media, and getting increasingly picky about DVD media (esp if you switch to something new after using the same media for years, as in your case). Your best bet might be to return the +R discs in exchange for the -R that have always worked for you: if the store won't do the exchange, contact Verbatim directly (they're very cooperative).

The 16x-speed Verbatim sold in stores and at popular web vendors has been hit-or-miss for a few years now: for every two people who swear by Verbatim you'll find one who swears AT them. It isn't so much a matter of "bad batches" as it is entire production runs of thousands of blank Verbatim DVDs being made with a dye formula that only burns properly in a brand new burner with new firmware you bought last week: forget any burner you've had for years. This actually occurs with all brands, but you hear more about Verbatim issues because Verbatim was such a beloved reliable brand in the early days. Today, not so much: production has been farmed out to subcontractors who use the same shoddy techniques to make Verbatim as they do to churn out the crap they make for Staples or OfficeMax. The only difference is they code the ID to read "MCC" (because MCC claims to provide materials and supervision: but don't count on that meaning jack).

As time goes by each disc brand seems to alternate between being better at +R or -R in any given year. For the longest time, TY/JVC was known for the best -R while Verbatim was preferred for +R. But this reversed last year, to where Verbatim now makes better -R and TY/JVC makes better +R. All of these minor issues (added to the fact your Pio 111 burner is getting old) could cause your problem. With Verbatim, you also need to be careful about the specific branding used on the package: be sure it has the word "AZO" somewhere on it. There is an "economy" line of Verbatim branded "Life Series" which does not have the "AZO" trademark anywhere on the packaging: these are not true "Verbatim" and use a totally different dye.

For best results on a PC, get used to the idea of installing a new burner every 18 months. Blank media is such a profitless commodity for mfrs now that they shave fractions of a penny off production cost by limiting full burn compatibility to only the very latest burners. As the drives age out many will still work fine, but at the first sign of issues its easier to replace a $30 burner than troubleshoot the media. Those who use DVD recorders or laptops, with embedded burners that can't be updated or replaced, should stick to slower-speed 8x media (Verbatim DataLifePlus, TY/JVC Silver Premium) sold thru online dealers. 8x media uses the older Japanese dye formula which is a little more broadly compatible with older burning hardware.

[jman98]

So it is bad.
Where do the good ones come from?

I still think this is unlikely and the real problem is your drive is dying.

The best Verbatim discs come from Singapore and Taiwan. Verbatim discs from India have always been considered the lowest quality with Chinese discs probably being a little better than Indian discs but inferior to discs made in Singapore and Taiwan.

[bendixG15]

So it is bad.
Where do the good ones come from?

I still think this is unlikely and the real problem is your drive is dying.

The best Verbatim discs come from Singapore and Taiwan. Verbatim discs from India have always been considered the lowest quality with Chinese discs probably being a little better than Indian discs but inferior to discs made in Singapore and Taiwan.

Has been my experience also.
Singapore and Taiwan is my choice.

[Instant Martian]

I still think this is unlikely and the real problem is your drive is dying.

Ok, that is possible. But a) I can't know for sure until it dies; b) I could buy a new drive but haven't the slightest idea on which one to choose.
I gave a look at the DVD Writers forum here and everybody has a different answer (probably based on personal experiences).

The best Verbatim discs come from Singapore and Taiwan.

To be honest, I have never given any attention to the origin of the discs.
If they were Verbatim -R and AZO they were good for me.
They have been of consistent quality in the years.
Anyway, dying drive or not, I don't know where to find good blank media now, since they are hard to find in local stores and I read of awful experiences about on-line shopping.

@orsetto
Thank you very much for your exhaustive reply.
I'll bring the remaining discs back to the store tomorrow, I think they will take them back.
Problem is that I don't think they will give me money back, more likely I will have to exchange them with something else and I don't know what, since they surely won't have -R discs.

The 16x-speed Verbatim sold in stores and at popular web vendors has been hit-or-miss for a few years now: for every two people who swear by Verbatim you'll find one who swears AT them. It isn't so much a matter of "bad batches" as it is entire production runs of thousands of blank Verbatim DVDs being made with a dye formula that only burns properly in a brand new burner with new firmware you bought last week: forget any burner you've had for years. This actually occurs with all brands, but you hear more about Verbatim issues because Verbatim was such a beloved reliable brand in the early days. Today, not so much: production has been farmed out to subcontractors who use the same shoddy techniques to make Verbatim as they do to churn out the crap they make for Staples or OfficeMax. The only difference is they code the ID to read "MCC" (because MCC claims to provide materials and supervision: but don't count on that meaning jack).

So one spends years in building a solid reputation of quality and then spoil it all like that?

With Verbatim, you also need to be careful about the specific branding used on the package: be sure it has the word "AZO" somewhere on it.

Always used AZO discs.

As the drives age out many will still work fine, but at the first sign of issues its easier to replace a $30 burner than troubleshoot the media.

Again, I could buy another burner, simply I don't know which one.
And still remains the fact that now I don't know where to get good quality media.

[aedipuss]

you don't really have that many choices anymore. pioneer stopped making their own drives years ago, so has plextor. and add in that it's an ide ata type drive and i'm not sure there are more than one or two chipsets still produced. maybe 3 or 4 different labels on them but all basically the same.

[jman98]

Just buy another Pioneer drive. Whether they make their own drives or not, in my personal experience theirs are still the best.

I can't speak for Italy but in North America the only reliable way to get good media is to buy it online. North American consumers demand cheap prices, which means low quality. Verbatim has had to cave in and now has a lower quality, cheaper media series called the "Life" series that stores carry in North America. This is different from their still excellent DataLifePlus series which has to be bought online. Taiyo Yuden is also a good choice. Anything that carries their name is still top notch.

[Instant Martian]

Thanks guys.
I am going to bring the DVDs back to the store this afternoon and if they don't have -R (highly probable) I think I'll take a new DVD writer.
The problem is that, as far as I remember, they have only Samsung and LG (not the best choices imho).
Pioneer drives seem to have become hard to find.
I could install a SATA drive but I'd prefer PATA.
As for the media, Taiyo Yuden are totally unknown here in Italy (never seen them anywhere).
I read of bad on-line-purchasing experiences (Chinese/Indian discs, smashed spindles, etc...).
In case of faulty product, sending it back would cost me a lot.
If some Italian member (or at least European) knows a reliable on-line store I'd appreciate an advice.

[jman98]

You might try buying from www.amazon.fr or www.amazon.de. Amazon UK sometimes refuses to ship "electronics" to continental Europe and burnable discs may count as "electronics" for them. Amazon.fr has Taiyo Yuden discs. They have Verbatim too but I am skeptical about their supposed "DataLifePlus" discs. They definitely do NOT look like that in the USA. I would suggest buying Taiyo Yuden just to be sure of what you are buying.

[Instant Martian]

Thanks jman.

This afternoon I went to the store with the remaining 4 25-discs packs, they took them back with no problem.
To my great surprise the -R were available again, I checked the origin (Taiwan) so I bought the entire stock they had (4 50-discs packs).
So I think I am settled for a while.
Now I will verify if my drive is dying.
And speaking of drives, while I was there I asked: they have only two DVD writers available (an Asus Lightscribe and a Samsung something) and a Sony/Nec Optiarc available on request.
Now I have to see what happens with the -R discs.

[Instant Martian]

About half of the 25 +R discs ended up into the trash can.
I have burned about 15 -R, not a single failure.
The drive is old but as long as it works (and I find the -R discs)...