How would you plan, shoot and edit this?

[Crye]

Hmmm, that's deep and clearer. Thank you. Look, I know I have this long journey, I know. I know I need plan, I'm planning, that's why I asked this question. Hope you understand. How else would I plan before location? I know, man, I'll get there hopefully. Respect.

Ok, I think I get what you mean. Now, don't see an unshakable picture. It's just a rough picture of what I've thought, and you could add to it def...

- The ground (cavern) of the hole, that is, the bottom, will be like a dark room with stony walls. Not too hard to get, no need for CG. Basically, you should know there's mostly gloom throughout the montage. You will hardly see clear details but speech. Reddish sparks etc...figures, screaming and reaching hand out from the deep etc. At the base you will know one person is imposing bc He's bigger, maybe with wings. The other might be on knees, begging. Then the big One will transfigure after dialogue, and start kind of vaporizing, and then a transition ..into...tunnel, where we see some kind of fast moving 'stream' of him the Superior flowing through tunnel. Maybe they come in through the tunnel and so the other person is in there too. Basically, we want to be able to make something flow though a hole. If it will be vertical, we shoot for that. If otherwise, we shoot for that. The two scenes can be shot at different times...the whole story is not in the 'normal' day as we live today. It's Endtime, an imagination.

WHAT NEXT?
Now I will just follow the vertical from your suggestion, and I guess it won't be complicated as would be a case we want meandering like in that stock I posted. Pls correct me if I should do otherwise...

1 - I will shoot the basement scene and have them act as to enhance transition.
2 - Throw the actor(s) into a greened hole about 1.5x (?) their height(s). I will green the entire walls. I will hang the cam facing down perpendicular to 1st actor who is acting like he's flying/flowing or something..and then also the idiot screaming up at cam, stretching hands and crying for mercy etc. The cam will not move (so I just hang it there and order the wind stopped lol) but the actors will do the actions tilting here and there and I take enough extra footage for handles.

Of course I'll start everything with test shots and show. I have some locations in mind.

Man thank you so much. How long can you be patient? I hope you too learn sth off any outgoing assistance and don't let me take too much of ur time.

[poisondeathray]

Wow, this is a very ambitious one to start with. What about shooting cute cat videos (joking...)

- The ground (cavern) of the hole, that is, the bottom, will be like a dark room with stony walls. Not too hard to get, no need for CG. Basically, you should know there's mostly gloom throughout the montage. You will hardly see clear details but speech. Reddish sparks etc...figures, screaming and reaching hand out from the deep etc. At the base you will know one person is imposing bc He's bigger, maybe with wings. The other might be on knees, begging. Then the big One will transfigure after dialogue, and start kind of vaporizing, and then a transition ..into...tunnel, where we see some kind of fast moving 'stream' of him the Superior flowing through tunnel. Maybe they come in through the tunnel and so the other person is in there too. Basically, we want to be able to make something flow though a hole. If it will be vertical, we shoot for that. If otherwise, we shoot for that. The two scenes can be shot at different times...the whole story is not in the 'normal' day as we live today. It's Endtime, an imagination.

1) If the cavern is "real" (a real place), you have other issues like matching footage and textures from the "real cavern" with the CG "well" and the transition, and the camera moving out of the well/tube - the textures and lighting will be difficult to match. I suppose you can "cover it up", or at least some of it, with smoke and gloom

2) Sparks , gloom, smoke, grading etc.. is fairly easy to do on regular footage (ie. making "normal" footage look gloomy or creepy, there are lots of tutorials around). This is basic compositing - no worries with that part

3) How are you going to make big wing dude ? Actor with props/makeup ? Embellish with CG ?

4) Transforming/vaporizing big wing dude is possible , but it's a lot of work to make it look semi-real or half decent. You should shoot a clean plate for that scene (clean plate is the exact same shot, same camera movement, but without the foreground element, or big wing dude. Ie. it's just the background) . Clean plate is obviously easier to do if you make it a locked off tripod shot. Otherwise you have to do some matchmoving and post work to generate clean plates

5) Where does the coming out of the "pit/well" , person stuck at the bottom shot fit in (your initial question ) or is that the "tunnel" ? What is the relationship of the "cavern" scene to the bottom of the "pit/well" , and the "tunnel" ?

Now I will just follow the vertical from your suggestion, and I guess it won't be complicated as would be a case we want meandering like in that stock I posted. Pls correct me if I should do otherwise...

Vertical works great for straight out of a "pit/well" , person stuck at the bottom - because that is the motion. Meandering is pretty easy to do in a 3D program too (all you do is tell the software camera to follow a spline), but when you go around bends/corners , you will lose "sight" of the person at the bottom - or is that the effect you want?

[Crye]

1 - It must not be real. What do you suggest?
2 - Ok, it'd be hard for me to find a good search topic in this area in hunt for tuts. Any link will greatly help.
3 - Must not be real. Yeah, I thought of CG, but would it look realer? Just suggest affirmatively.
4 - I agree Clean is good. But I rather think transfiguring would be the easiest part...making someone diffuse off with air and disappear in e.g a rising smoke??? Or maybe I lost my mind and should think again? lol. Maybe you're overestimating this whole project and thinking Hollywood? Boyzzzz!!!

5 - See...there are two ways I could do this whole project: (Pls I say again, this is not your everyday world, it is endtime. A viewer should expect to see 'normal' things or ask too many questions. The dialogue and spiritual topic is more important. There are many things, but just keep in mind: We don't want to be too clear...it's all like hell, fire, redness, heat, smoke, gloom etc. Actually, the slugs below should always say "Something that looks like xxxx eg. a dark corridor --- nothing in this two scene story is really clear, visually)...Ok...

Way 1 - DARK UNDERGROUND CORRIDOR - 2 pairs of FEET walking in the dark, One leading, the other moving like the owner is being dragged/coerced along. We HEAR him begging as they walk though the channel i.e. SIDE SIDE SIDE, horizontal), into....

BASEMENT - a roomy space, the bottom of....

It's from here that culprit, wondering where he even is, looks up and realises there's a hole leading up from them. For such depth, he'd probably just see a gleam of light far far up from the mouth of the pit. Rays wouldn't probably reach down here but we will do our own 'darkness' lighting. Think of a hole that has a base that is a large space with a door that leads elsewhere. The there, there will be the dialogue, and then the bigger will transfigure and disappear...UP,UP..UP, Vertical.. through the hole (and not the sides at the bottom as they came in).

Way 2 - TUNNEL/HOLE/PIT - Escorting the sinner DOWN a hole. (and the begging in Way1 would then be during this journey down) ...then final dialogue at the base with sounds of demons and chains clacking, low moans and far off screams etc. I could even CG a distant view of a lake of lava and indistinct mov't etc. Then I close up the basement scene with the Superior transfiguring and vaporising upward over a tense rising/loud sound and the I cut to black with a wild scream of the sinner to show that the Salsa with the demons will have just begun.


So you see, the tunnel happens either way, and that's what this question was about.


Yes I think vertical would work just fine (esp as it will help in that looking up part, where culprit discovers/notices the hole above them). I am comforted you agree I can always hide things with participles, and like me you seem so meticulous.

Thank you very much brother, you're the man. Please don't forget to help with that list in my most recent thread. Just impose. I really hope I can go around here helping others too soon. But right now I'm a doc that will just inject them killer doses as I'm still to feel my direction in anything to say the least. lol


EDIT: I can even shoot the basement in green to give myself max tweaking latitude. I have some interesting overlays and God sent me links, knowing what I want to do. I have an ancient door opening into a green b/g. Even the guy that sent me that photo frame, it's a mystery to me how fast that happened. Even the animated tunnel I posted here..see, I just fell on it...and that was AFTER my vision.

[smrpix]

Sketches man, sketches. At the end of the day you have to put something specific on the screen. How does your smoke rise? What color is it? Does it swirl? How fast? How thick?

Every time you've described your scene I've seen something different in my imagination -- and I bet none of them match what you are actually thinking.

[poisondeathray]

smrpix hit it on the head - how it's done in the planning phase is sketches and storyboard. For everything you've tried to describe, it might have gone a dozen different ways. What you visualize in your mind might be completely different than what other people "see". I think I am "overestimating", because what I'm seeing in my mind is probably very different



This was already mentioned but it needs to be emphasized - don't let the VFX drive the story . It's the other way around. The VFX is used to assist the storytelling which is much more important.

80% of "scary/ horror/ creepiness" atmosphere is actually in the audio - have you ever watched a scary movie and mute the sound ?

Discussing how a certain effect is done in generic terms, and actually doing it are worlds apart. There is a lot of work and learning to do if you're starting from scratch. You're not the first person that has been enthusiastic about doing a project like this. Not to discourage you but 99.9% drop it because they eventually realize it's too difficult. There is mountain of learning to do in multiple disciplines. People spend years learning about one area - you're trying to do it all. People don't climb Mt. Everest without preparing years beforehand, but that's similar to what you are trying to do.

But one big plus that you have going for you is this is not real / a sort of dream sequence - you have a lot of freedom to fix flaws , cover things up, edit things the way you want to.

[Crye]

Ok, I'll try to put a sketch together. I just hate doing things in 'the way'.

This is why I need to know these programs myself. I'm not a ranking narrator.

[poisondeathray]

Then just start playing with the programs and have a look at some tutorials. You need to have a basic idea of what is possible and what level of effort is required. The higher your expectations, the more effort is required

You don't have to sketch it out if you don't want to. Nobody is forcing you. You can just shoot it and "wing it" - Try to fix it in post, cover up some problems. You learn from your mistakes and the next shoot and project will be better

I'm thinking in my mind of movies. Like Clash of the Titans. This is good 3D compositing. 3D elements interacting with 2D footage. Lighting and shadows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXttqg0RWU8

If you're thinking 80's style DOS video games graphics, then we're not on the same page.

Tomb Raider, Then and Now

[Crye]

Hmmm, thank you so much! I have gone thru the Adobe CS6 CIB course once. I want to do some hands-on before going through again. i have loads of DL'ded tuts.

"You need to have a basic idea of what is possible and what level of effort is required."...yes, that's the whole point!

Ya, I like that film so much!