Should I upgrade my VCR from a JVC Hr-S9911u to an older

[etecnifibre]

Panasonic AG-1980? I have a friend that has one of these, and man, it will do wonders on older tapes. I haven't done a comparison between two specific tapes, so I'm asking here to see if anyone has. Thanks.

[davideck]

I have a friend that has one of these, and man, it will do wonders on older tapes.

I would make the same claim about my old JVC HR-S6800 and HR-S4900 VCRs.
There are many older VCRs that can provide superior capture quality to the JVC TBC/DNR VCRs. Ironically, these older units often close for bargain prices on EBay.

Think of an older VCR as an addition, not just an upgrade.
Sometimes the TBC/DNR system is very helpful.
Sometimes the capture quality of the older VCR is noticeably superior.
I think you'd be glad to have both.

[etecnifibre]

Thanks. The Panasonic I'm talking about has the TBC/DNR as well.

[lordsmurf]

Talk with gshelley. His experience is the opposite, as are others I know, with the older VCRs not performing as well with tapes. The older units tend to be able to track VHS tapes better, but the image quality is not there compared to newer machines, such as the high-end JVC units of the past decade.

[gshelley61]

Although I have not had an AG-1980, I have been in posession of several Pansonic AG-1970 units. They are very well made recorder/editors with built in half-frame TBC's. They also have separately switchable video noise reduction. The 1970 is certainly a fine prosumer machine, but the picture is not superior to the high end JVC 9000 series consumer S-VHS VCR's of the same era. The video noise reduction in the JVC's definitely work better than in the Panasonic units, especially on chroma noise.

BTW, the 1980 (which is nearly identical to the 1970, just newer) is fairly expensive to acquire on eBay. They generally go for more than $400, usually in the $500 to $600 range. A used 1970 in good shape will run about the same as a used 9000 series JVC.

Another S-VHS machine that people look for is the Sony SLV-R1000 (and the SVO-2000, which is the prosumer version). These units do not have a built in TBC, but have a pretty impressive and very sharp playback picture. Still, I prefer the JVC 9000 series machines overall, especially the HR-S9600 and the HR-S9800. They are probably the two best built of the line.

[etecnifibre]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'll see how my tapes that I have trouble with work on his before I move on getting anything.

[davideck]

The older units tend to be able to track VHS tapes better, but the image quality is not there compared to newer machines, such as the high-end JVC units of the past decade.

A lot of this depends upon the source tape quality as well as the distinction between the playback quality of a VCR versus its capture quality for DVD playback.
While I appreciate the playback quality of my 9600 and 7600 VCRs, my experience has been that capturing with my 6800 preserves more original detail for DVD playback, particularly with low noise S-VHS source material.

[etecnifibre]

I tried a tape on both a JVC HR-S9911U and a Panasonic AG-1980. There was simply no comparison in the quality. The Panasonic delivered a near perfect picture. My JVC did what it could with it, and compared to my Wal-Mart Sony was outstanding. Just passing on the info.

[Wile_E]

I'm curious what picture mode you used for the 9911U? AUTO/Sharp/Edit/soft? It would also be interesting if someone could post comparisons between older JVC units and the newer 9911U, and AG-1980.

I bought a 9911U, as I really didn't want to take a chance on Ebay with an older SVHS unit. Who knows how many hours of use the unit had. I have been using AUTO picture mode, but recently had one tape that looked way too soft. This was a new VHS recording I made on a new Sony "premium" grade tape. Had to use EDIT mode instead. But before I buy an older unit, I would prefer seeing comparisons.

[BrainStorm69]

Just FYI, at least one review comparing the AG-1980 to the AG-1970 said the playback picture of the AG-1980 is better.

http://www.studio1productions.com/Articles/AG1980.htm

[etecnifibre]

I picked up an AG-1980 off eBay, and I'm very pleased with the picture quality over that of my JVC HR-S9911U.

[etecnifibre]

Just a little video update here.

I got this video out of my JVC HR-S9911
http://portfolio.iu.edu/cbburnet/JVC.wmv

And this one from my Panasonic AG-1980
http://portfolio.iu.edu/cbburnet/Panasonic.wmv

Just for anyone considering spending quite a bit for a VCR. I went a little higher than I wanted for the Panasonic, $370 with shipping, but, the pictures looked immaculate, and when the VCR arrived today, I was very pleased with the shape it was in, with the manual and remote. It looked like I took it out of a box from the factory.

Very pleased with my purchase.

[lordsmurf]

They both look like crap. And it's the tape's fault anyway, not the VCR.

I bet my $100 (1995 priced) Sharp regular VHS VCR would play that tape even better than the Panasonic. Is it because the Sharp is "better" than the Panasonic? No. Just like that Panasonic is not better than the JVC. But it'll handle crap tapes a little better, in terms of unstable sync, which is your problem here.

If you ran that tape into a Panasonic ES10 DVD recorder, I bet it would be fine.

A tip on the JVC, for that sort of error, turn off the TBC if the TBC does not fix it, and turn on the video stabilizer. Maybe even turn off the advanced filters, and put in EDIT mode.

The Panasonic S-VHS quality is really not that much different than the JVC S-VHS, assuming the settings are made to match output.

[etecnifibre]

This was a tape I got in a trade, so I would bet that you are right. I've had master tapes sent to me that were great. In fact, several from the 1981 season when Indiana won the title. They were fabulous.

The only problem is that I have a real hard time finding people that actually recorded games back then.

I had some other tapes that wouldn't play on my JVC that look fantastic on my Panasonic as well. Maybe I just don't know how to handle everything I get.

What do you recommend? I mean, I already bought this VCR, and I'm very pleased with the results.

Plus, pre1980 Indiana basketball is hard to come by. That's some serious piece of history there. Indiana won the Big Ten title that year, and beating Purdue is ALWAYS a good thing.

[BrainStorm69]

As far as those two clips go, the Panasonic is definitely better. Why don't you try what LS suggests for the JVC and see if it does any better. And if it doesn't, why don't you send the tape to LS and let him try it on his Sharp and see if it can do better.

I had an old Admiral (Sharp) VCR. I was unimpressed with its picture quality (see this thread: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=228269&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vcr comparison). I gave it away awhile back. Of all the VCRs I have (an I have many), it's picture quality was the worst IMHO. But then again, I never tried a tape like that in it. Maybe I just missed the one thing at which it would have exceled. If it turns out that LS' Sharp makes it look better, you can get old Sharp VCRs all day long for about $20 on ebay.

[davideck]

etecnifibre -

The difference in playback quality between your JVC and Panasonic files is night and day, just like you claimed. Your Panasonic looks to be a fine VCR indeed!

Does the JVC playback look any better with the TBC/DNR off?

[etecnifibre]

I tried the edit feature and tried to track the tape manually. The picture never got any better on the JVC.

Davideck, with the TBC off on both VCR's the tape looks like total crap. It's nothing but noise.

[gshelley61]

The half-frame TBC in the 1980 may be more robust than the line TBC in the JVC, or is simply able to better deal with the rather severe timebase errors your tape has.

[BrainStorm69]

etecnifibre, after paying a little more attention to those video clips, are you sure the one you have labeled as the JVC is in fact the JVC? I don't think any of my JVC VCRs have the on-screen tracking indicator that is present in that cap. Based on the fact that the on-screen tracking indicator looks the same in each, both clips look to me to be from the same machine - presumably your Panasonic - one with the TBC off and the other with it on.

[etecnifibre]

The on screen tracking indicator you see was on the tape when I received it. That's why it is the same in both clips.

Neither of my VCR's puts the info on the screen like that. In fact, the Panasonic doesn't even have the option to put anything on the screen like the JVC does.

[pijetro]

I've been hawking Ebay for a 1980 unit for the last several weeks..It's just impossible to find one under the $300 range...

There doesn't seem to be any miracles out there...

On a side note, why do the Panasonic AG-7650,7750 models seem to be relatively cheaper??
They seem more robust than the 1980, and seem to have nice manual controls.

[etecnifibre]

The guy I bought mine from offered me another for $370. I'll email him back and see if he'll go lower. What is the most you would go?

That price would include shipping. The one he sent me looked practically brand new, in very nice condition. He hasn't listed the other yet.

I saw one go for around $290 with shipping, but it didn't have the remote or manual or any cables.

Looking at eBay just now, there isn't one on there that is as nice as the one I got.

[BrainStorm69]

The on screen tracking indicator you see was on the tape when I received it. That's why it is the same in both clips.

Neither of my VCR's puts the info on the screen like that. In fact, the Panasonic doesn't even have the option to put anything on the screen like the JVC does.

AH...I see. Thanks for the clarification.

[davideck]

While browsing through the VCR offerings on EBay, I noticed one seller who claims that the Panasonic AG-1980 eliminates frame dropping. I find this intriguing.

One significant shortcoming of the JVC TBC/DNR system is that is does NOT provide uninterrupted sync during tape dropouts or during record gaps. This can cause the capture device to drop frames as it tries to resync to the discontinuous VCR output. An external TBC is therefore often required in addition to the JVC TBC/DNR system just to provide an uninterrupted sync to the capture device.

If the Panasonic built in TBC DOES provide uninterrupted sync, then the Panasonic VCR provides the same functionality of a JVC TBC/DNR VCR AND an external TBC. Can anyone confirm this?

[etecnifibre]

I have a tape that really skipped frames on my JVC. I'll throw it in my Panasonic later on and see how it looks and report back.

[etecnifibre]

Skipped frames were eliminated in my Panasonic both with and without the TBC turned on. This was an original tape from the 1985-1986 season.

[Wile_E]

I would still like to see some still frames, using a better tape. Just to see if the Panasonic retains more detail than the JVC. Maybe record part of a DVD onto a good quality VHS tape. This will give you a good source to capture. Use different tapes for each VCR. Then capture the tapes and show some frames from each. Use EDIT mode on the JVC, as all others tend to soften the image a bit.

Here is a thread here that showed Ice Age DVD comparisons between JVC 9900 and 7600. A comparison like this should be done against JVC and Panasonic to show the differences in quality.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=285395&highlight=ice+age&sid=25114c1f7f...5bce2b6a6fd603

[etecnifibre]

I'll do that if I have time. I've got quite a bit to get done in the next few days and likely won't have time.

Also, I know I don't know what I'm doing as much as some of the experts here. I don't have the money to invest in all the necessary equipment. I was really just looking for something better than my JVC, and I found it. I could probably squeeze a little better quality out of some of these tapes, but I'm really just satisfied with the quality that I have. Don't take that as a knock on the guys looking for the very best quality out of their stuff. I guess it's all what's acceptable to you, and I'm pleased with the quality of my games. These old games are hard to come by anyway.

Now, I have a bit higher standard, as one would imagine, for a game that is only 15 years old as opposed to one that is 25 years old.

I really do appreciate all the help I've gotten from this site. Especially lordsmurf. I send people to your site all the time, and sometimes even give people advice that I've gotten from reading your site. It makes me look smart. :>)

[davideck]

Skipped frames were eliminated in my Panasonic both with and without the TBC turned on.

Thanks for checking it out.
I think that this demonstrates superior playback capability, but not uninterrupted sync. With the TBC OFF, I suspect that the off-tape sync is not replaced. That's how the JVC works.

During playback of dropout regions and/or record gaps, the JVC TBC/DNR puts out defective sync. Clean, but defective sync. The Vertical Interval is incorrect, and the field rate decreases slightly.

[etecnifibre]

I really don't know what all that means. I'll take your word for it. :>)

I PM'd you as well about it.