Are these VCR's Super VHS machines to use for playback?

[avz10]

I have started to capture/convert my VHS cassettes to DVD using an old PAL VHS VCR and my Canon Legria to convert from AV to DV. It works.

I have read that the quality can be better using a Super VHS machine.

I have advertised for one, but no response. I went to a secondhand shop this afternoon, and saw these machines, but the signs on them only indicates VHS- Should it not indicate S VHS?

This is what I saw:

Hitachi M428E;
Akai VS X588;
National Super 4 head NV F70 HQ

I do not think the S VHS format was ever popular in SA.

Thanks

[hech54]

A good sign that you are looking at an S-VHS VCR is an S-Video connection on the back.....but not all S-VHS machines have them.

[betwixt]

To see the better quality your original recordings have to be in Super VHS format. It's a system that records and plays back differently to normal VHS. If your recordings are VHS you will not see any improvement whatsoever.

Brian.

[Cornucopia]

To see the better quality your original recordings have to be in Super VHS format. It's a system that records and plays back differently to normal VHS. If your recordings are VHS you will not see any improvement whatsoever.

Brian.

NOT TRUE.

It greatly depends on the deck and what features it has (head gap width, alignment, 3d comb filtering, internal line TBC, etc). Because a pro S-VHS deck may have improved on ALL those things compared to a consumer VHS deck, even putting in a lowly VHS (even LP/EP) can be a big improvement. Now, it's not going to be so great as to look like a DVD, but it is often worth it if you can afford the deck for your size project(s).

This was discussed not too long ago...

Scott

[hech54]

To see the better quality your original recordings have to be in Super VHS format. It's a system that records and plays back differently to normal VHS. If your recordings are VHS you will not see any improvement whatsoever.

Brian.

Ditto to Cornucopia....NOT true.

[orsetto]

None of the three VCRs you saw are SVHS models (the word "super" on the front panel of the NV F70 refers to the clear slow motion feature of the video head design).

When members of forums like VH recommend SVHS vcrs to "improve" playback of tapes, we are talking only about a few very specific models made by JVC and Panasonic- not all the SVHS vcrs ever sold. What makes the tapes look "better" is a feature called TBC/DNR, which means Time Base Corrector with Digital Noise Reduction, not SVHS: it is merely coincidence that the TBC/DNR feature was only ever offered on the most expensive SVHS models.

Finding a JVC or Panasonic SVHS vcr with the TBC/DNR feature in your part of the world may be difficult. They have not been sold new for many years, those of us using them primarily trade them amongst each other via second hand markets like eBay. Quite honestly, because of the low supply and high demand since 2003, most of these desirable SVHS units have been passed thru at least 10 owners by now and are very, very worn out. To get the performance everyone talks about, one usually now needs to have such a machine completely rebuilt by a good technician. Sad to say, I think the number of such technicians in South Africa is matched by the numbers of the actual SVHS units: none. Very few competent service techs exist in North America, fewer yet in Europe and almost none in other parts of the world.

The heyday of people obsessing over their VHS digital transfers ended some years ago, and those people completely used up (to the point of destruction) 90% of the TBC/DNR vcrs that were available. Unless you live in USA, Germany, or UK the chances of finding a TBC/DNR SVHS in worthwhile condition are very slim (and even in those countries, they are very expensive and usually require still more expensive servicing). While the TBC/DNR feature does indeed make some tapes look much-improved, especially the colors, it has been vastly over-praised by extremely picky hobbyists in forums like VH. Most "normal" people would not find the difference worth the tremendous cost and aggravation involved with acquiring and maintaining the rare fragile old SVHS models. It is important to note the TBC/DNR improvement is not universal: for every tape that is improved by these circuits, there is another that will look worse: the effects vary widely from tape to tape.

At this late date, living in a country where SVHS was never widely available, you are better off looking for a nice "normal" VHS in good condition that has a wide range of adjustment in its tracking controls. The most important factor in digitizing VHS is good tracking, without that even the fancy TBC/DNR SVHS machines will give bad results. Of the three models you were considering, the NV F70 most likely has the best tracking range for playback and would be the easiest brand to get repaired. Akai is long out of the VCR business and Hitachi can be tricky to repair, but the National (Panasonic) NV series was very popular for a very long time, making parts and service more common. In PAL format, the TBC/DNR vcrs mentioned the most are Panasonic NV-FS200 and a couple of JVCs like HR-S8965EEK. For a list of recommended PAL vcrs and related info, look at this link.

[avz10]

Thanks for all these replies, especially orsettos comprehensive reply.

The National appears to be in a good condition and the price is relatively cheap.

Of the three models you were considering, the NV F70 most likely has the best tracking range for playback and would be the easiest brand to get repaired.

I suppose the connection between the VCR and Canon Legria would be a RCA cable?

Any other advice with regards to capture settings- again, this is South Africa with PAL 25 fps, but I would like to capture this footage as best I can.

Thanks

[betwixt]

Before shooting me down again...
VHS playback on an SVHS will not give better results. Playing ANY tape back on a deck with TBC, noise reduction etc, will improve the picture but it isn't a feature of SVHS per se.
SVHS is just a system employing wider bandwidth and greater frequency shifts during the recording and playback processes. Granted, the wider amplifier bandwidth might show a very slight improvement when playing back standard VHS but the dominant limitation is in the recording and media and as such, I doubt avz10 would notice any improvement.

Brian.

[Cornucopia]

Yes, I agree with your assumption, but this still greatly depends on the deck in question. I used to often use a Panasonic AG-DS550 (IIRC?) S-VHS pro edit deck, and I can guarantee that EVERYTHING I ran through it looked better than in regular decks, whether the source was VHS or SVHS.
...EXCEPT a few bad tapes which wouldn't work at all in it, but would work in a cruddy $59.95 Walmart no-name deck??!!! Go figure.

Scott

[hech54]

If your recordings are VHS you will not see any improvement whatsoever.

Granted, the wider amplifier bandwidth might show a very slight improvement when playing back standard VHS

Keep spinning there buddy.

[hech54]

The National appears to be in a good condition and the price is relatively cheap

DON'T pay too much for a VCR....especially one that isn't at least S-VHS.
I paid 1$ for my a fully functional JVC "standard" VCR a few months ago on Ebay.

[avz10]

What would your opinions be then- should I try a little bit longer to find a SVHS machine, or buy the National?

[hech54]

Wait for a Panasonic or JVC.

[orsetto]

What would your opinions be then- should I try a little bit longer to find a SVHS machine, or buy the National?

You are in South Africa, the selection of second-hand high-end VCRs is going to be small. You seem to be getting by OK with your existing VCR: is there any problem with it you haven't mentioned? What is the brand/model? Is it the VCR that originally recorded most of your tapes? If so, it may be difficult to improve on. If your current VCR is in good shape and not giving you problems, there's no need to jump on the National (Panasonic) NV-F70 unless you want a spare VCR and the price is very low (under $40 US). The NV-F70 had some useful picture settings and was a well-made "semi-pro" model, but it is otherwise ordinary (and rather old) so you shouldn't invest more than casual money in it. Dedicated videophiles in PAL regions opt for the Panasonic NV-FS200 or similar JVCs with TBC/DNR, these are what you should look for assuming you have the budget.

The problem with SVHS models is all the smoke and mirrors everyone throws up around them: it needs to be clearly understood they are not all created equal. There are three classes of SVHS: basic consumer, high-end with TBC/DNR, and full-on professional rack mount studio models. The basic models are virtually the same as regular, run-of-the-mill VCRs: all they add is the ability to play and record SVHS tapes in SVHS quality. That is well and good if you actually have SVHS tapes you need to digitize, but if all your tapes are ordinary VHS there is little or nothing to be gained by moving to a basic low-end SVHS. Yes, people took better care of them than cheaper VCRs and your likelihood of finding one in nicer condition could help a little (the better-preserved the VCR, the better the playback). The multi-pin S-video connectors on low-end S-VCRs may or may not feed your encoder a better signal from non-VHS tapes: the composite connection proves superior more often than you'd expect. Each combination of tape, VCR, connection and encoder reacts unpredictably.

The high-end Panasonic and JVC SVHS models with the TBC/DNR feature are the ones worth paying extra for, if you can afford the cost and possible repairs. The TBC/DNR works to improve all tapes, SVHS and regular VHS, unlike the more common basic SVHS models which only offer picture improvements when using SVHS tapes. Only you can decide if the benefit is worth the cost: as I mentioned previously, TBC/DNR results are highly variable. The system can be very erratic when playing LP/EP speed recordings and/or tapes that are copies of other tapes. TBC/DNR really works best on SP speed first-generation original recordings: if you mostly have LP or EP speed tapes, you could be very disappointed.

The huge professional studio SVHS are best left alone. Their design is optimized for professionally-recorded tapes, with transports and heads that don't always play well with consumer tapes. TBC/DNR was an expensive, optional, removable feature on most- contained on a daughtercard similar to the cards we use in PCs. The "pro' users often removed these expensive cards before selling the old pro VCRs, so you need to actually look inside many of them to confirm the card is still there. Even without the TBC card, old studio SVHS vcrs can potentially offer improved playback, but its a 50/50 coin toss. Much depends on the exact model, its condition, and your tapes: an expensive experiment if you aren't careful and lucky. So when you see a $4995 "pro" SVHS being offered for $100-400, don't assume it's a huge bargain: it may be just another old used VCR.

[jman98]

I'm not knocking anybody in this thread, but this proves that while the numbers of people obsessed with VHS captures may be down from a few years ago, they aren't all gone. There's another infamous (to me at least) thread here that is approaching 1000 posts on the subject. The OP in that thread started it over a year ago and since then he has gotten nowhere because every time he starts a capture, he stops because it doesn't meet his impossible standards and he posts asking for help. sanlyn, jagabo and few others who should know better continue to post in that fool's errand. I told jagabo if he'd just do the damn transfers for the guy himself it would take up less time than continuing to respond to that thread that won't die.

The Hauppauge Colossus has a TBC that works VERY well on my old VHS tapes. You need to turn it on with a registry edit though. You can find out how to do it via a search. Frankly, it's been so good for my uses that I have not found it necessary to even think about getting a TBC or an old VCR with a TBC. I just throw this out as a suggestion.

Just my opinion - I've been doing some VHS captures recently with my Colossus and now having better tools than years ago has just convinced me that VHS was a really terrible media source with all kinds of problems inherent in it. To keep my sanity and to bring projects to an end I've had to decide on a standard I can reach via capture and AviSynth that is "good enough". I know that lordsmurf and few other swear that they can get DVD quality out of VHS captures and maybe he's got the tools and the time to do it, but I've seen so many issues with commercial tapes that it has just left me appalled at how truly bad VHS was in its day and all I can say is that I certainly wouldn't call anything I've done as being "DVD quality". I've gotten decent results, but it's a far cry from being perfect.

[sanlyn]

True. No way VHS can "look like DVD". It can look like cleaned up/repaired/denoised/color-correct VHS, but that's it. But you can always work some limited miracles if you have a few million bucks, a Disney lab setup in your house, a staff of international progammer geeks and techs, and a little time. Otherwise, VHS is VHS. Always.

[avz10]

This has been a very interesting conversation. The next will be capturing programmes using a HD video camera...

I have decided to try again and get hold of a Panasonic NV-FS200. This seems to be a good choice. Getting it in South Africa might be a problem, but I well try, or buy via ebay from a country that supports PAL- like Germany, UK, etc- these machines will work here, I suppose??

On the German ebay, thety are cheap, but postage is a bit more expensive, but not exorbitant.

Thanks- a comment from what countries I could "import"

[avz10]

Just btw, I do not expect the extra-ordinary with my captures, just the best I can get off my current home VHS cassettes

[Gibson's Squares]

Would using a SVHS deck & S-video cable to capture VHS not give a cleaner signal than standard VHS and RCA cables?

I've never really got to the bottom of that one.

[robjv1]

True. No way VHS can "look like DVD". It can look like cleaned up/repaired/denoised/color-correct VHS, but that's it. But you can always work some limited miracles if you have a few million bucks, a Disney lab setup in your house, a staff of international progammer geeks and techs, and a little time. Otherwise, VHS is VHS. Always.

Yeah, I'm not convinced that even Disney could take a VHS tape and turn it into anything better than what the members can do on our forum here. I've seen VHS footage included in various commercial collections over the years, usually in the form of additional scenes/uncut footage or rare interviews. In almost every instance, it looks really bad. In the best cases I can think of, it looked pretty good -- but never amazing. I assume this is because even these huge studios have little experience and equipment to deal with consumer formats like VHS.

Can anyone think of an example of a professional restoration of a VHS source by a big studio that looks amazingly stellar?

[orsetto]

Would using a SVHS deck & S-video cable to capture VHS not give a cleaner signal than standard VHS and RCA cables?

I've never really got to the bottom of that one.

You can't get to the bottom of it because there is no definite answer that applies to all hardware and all tapes all the time: the answer always has to be qualified, because none of us has your exact tapes, VCR, computer, input board. We can only guess.

IN THEORY, yes, playing a plain ordinary regular VHS tape in a plain ordinary SVHS vcr using SVHS video connectors should give slightly to moderately better results than the regular old VHS vcr using regular old composite wiring.

IN REALITY, it isn't so cut and dried. Some SVHS vcrs have SVHS connections that are actually noisier than their composite circuits: depends on age of the VCR and quality control when it was made. Ditto PC video input boards and DVD recorders: some have good S-video connections, some don't, in some the two connection types yield similar results. The final wildcard is your own specific tapes: sometimes they benefit from going thru the SVHS connections, sometimes they don't.

The only "definite" is if you spend the money to buy a "premium" model SVHS vcr with the optional TBC/DNR features described above. Those features were not standard issue in every SVHS deck, they were only included in a few top-of-the-line models from Panasonic and JVC. Most SVHS vcrs were exactly the same as the non-SVHS model just beneath them in the brand lineup: the only difference was they included the special heads and circuit necessary to use SVHS tapes at full resolution. The TBC/DNR of top models will significantly change the appearance of ANY tape, SVHS or regular VHS, via both S-Video and composite connections. The tapes won't generally look sharper but the visual noise will be dramatically reduced, most notably in large areas of a single color (esp red) which will look completely clean and free of dark flickering or shimmering. Often this is a nice improvement, sometimes it backfires and the system makes the video look "plastic" or fake, or the noise is intensified and distorted instead of reduced. Depends on the specific tape.

IOW, if you live in an area where SVHS vcrs are scarce or expensive, don't knock yourself out looking for one unless you already have some SVHS tapes you need to play. If all your tapes are regular VHS, you generally won't see significantly improved playback from the typical average "affordable" SVHS vcr with S-video connections. If one drops into your lap for a cheap price, sure, try it: you might get lucky. Otherwise, there's (usually) little playback advantage with an SVHS vcr over a standard vcr unless the SVHS includes the TBC/DNR feature.

[robjv1]

Would using a SVHS deck & S-video cable to capture VHS not give a cleaner signal than standard VHS and RCA cables?

I've never really got to the bottom of that one.

You can't get to the bottom of it because there is no definite answer that applies to all hardware and all tapes all the time: the answer always has to be qualified, because none of us has your exact tapes, VCR, computer, input board. We can only guess.

IN THEORY, yes, playing a plain ordinary regular VHS tape in a plain ordinary SVHS vcr using SVHS video connectors should give slightly to moderately better results than the regular old VHS vcr using regular old composite wiring.

IN REALITY, it isn't so cut and dried. Some SVHS vcrs have SVHS connections that are actually noisier than their composite circuits: depends on age of the VCR and quality control when it was made. Ditto PC video input boards and DVD recorders: some have good S-video connections, some don't, in some the two connection types yield similar results. The final wildcard is your own specific tapes: sometimes they benefit from going thru the SVHS connections, sometimes they don't.

The only "definite" is if you spend the money to buy a "premium" model SVHS vcr with the optional TBC/DNR features described above. Those features were not standard issue in every SVHS deck, they were only included in a few top-of-the-line models from Panasonic and JVC. Most SVHS vcrs were exactly the same as the non-SVHS model just beneath them in the brand lineup: the only difference was they included the special heads and circuit necessary to use SVHS tapes at full resolution. The TBC/DNR of top models will significantly change the appearance of ANY tape, SVHS or regular VHS, via both S-Video and composite connections. The tapes won't generally look sharper but the visual noise will be dramatically reduced, most notably in large areas of a single color (esp red) which will look completely clean and free of dark flickering or shimmering. Often this is a nice improvement, sometimes it backfires and the system makes the video look "plastic" or fake, or the noise is intensified and distorted instead of reduced. Depends on the specific tape.

IOW, if you live in an area where SVHS vcrs are scarce or expensive, don't knock yourself out looking for one unless you already have some SVHS tapes you need to play. If all your tapes are regular VHS, you generally won't see significantly improved playback from the typical average "affordable" SVHS vcr with S-video connections. If one drops into your lap for a cheap price, sure, try it: you might get lucky. Otherwise, there's (usually) little playback advantage with an SVHS vcr over a standard vcr unless the SVHS includes the TBC/DNR feature.

I don't think this question could be answered any better!

I've spent hours and hours pouring over posts on here over the years, seeing my opinion sway back and forth between different ideas of what is 'the best way' to do something, but in the end you really just have to get your hands dirty a little, because the x-factor in all of this are *your* tapes. No VCR, DVD recorder, capture card, or TBC will produce 100% predictable results -- hell, they won't produce predictable results among just the tapes in your collection 100% of the time.

I actually had a case today where a tape pretty much broke all of my conventional techniques. Normally these days, I capture with a JVC SR-W5U deck with the TBC on to a capture card or DVD recorder, with a proc-amp in between. 95% of my tapes capture just fine in this configuration. Well, the EP tape I was trying to convert was incredibly jittery, so I tried it with the TBC off -- well that revealed some other problems with the tape that the TBC was suppressing, even though the jitter was now gone. Then I yanked out my Panasonic ES-10 DVD recorder and used it for passthrough -- it fixed the issues the VCR was having, but added alternating dark lines to the image (very weird, I tested it with some other tapes just to make sure it wasn't going -- it was fine with them). So then I pulled out my Datavideo TBC 1000 and what do you know, that basically fixed all of the problems. Normally I don't use it, because it does almost nothing for my tapes, except for slightly softening the signal, but on this occasion it saved the day. There are times when my main VCR seems to work miracles above my other decks, and then there are tapes where nothing but my old run-down Panasonic PV-7451 will make it look decent. You just never know -- and you won't really ever know what is best until you actually start working on your stuff and experimenting with it.

[lordsmurf]

Can anyone think of an example of a professional restoration of a VHS source by a big studio that looks amazingly stellar?

Few of them use VHS. A lot of it is transferred from more obscure tape formats. The issue is the studio people tend to only know hardware. The irony is a VHS version would have looked better because of better S-VHS equipment workflows. The obscure methods often require after-the-fact software work that is far outside the scope of their knowledge base.

I land a few of those jobs, from time to time, when they decide to actually put effort into its restoration.

. I know that lordsmurf and few other swear that they can get DVD quality out of VHS captures and maybe he's got the tools and the time to do it

Yes.

but I've seen so many issues with commercial tapes that it has just left me appalled at how truly bad VHS was in its day

Also yes.

only included in a few top-of-the-line models from Panasonic and JVC.

And clones: Blaupunkt, Mitsubishi, Samsung, Go.Video, and others.

Before shooting me down again... VHS playback on an SVHS will not give better results. Playing ANY tape back on a deck with TBC, noise reduction etc, will improve the picture but it isn't a feature of SVHS per se.

You're really just confusing the matter. The only decks equipped with higher-quality mainboards, heads, transports, etc -- those were S-VHS VCRs. The only real difference between S-VHS and VHS is the linear resolution. Some S-VHS decks have sharpening filters that try to compensate for the ~150 line difference, though I don't suggest them. (Whole different topic.)

[juhok]

Would using a SVHS deck & S-video cable to capture VHS not give a cleaner signal than standard VHS and RCA cables?

I've never really got to the bottom of that one.

If something is not broken, I've never seen a case where composite was better. It might be possible, but if you're in a situation where you cannot test it, rule of thumb in my opinion is Y/C connector/cable over composite. If you can test it, then you don't even need to ask. I've had pretty positive results by replacing S-video/DIN4 connectors with BNC connectors and using BNC video cable.

[orsetto]

I've had pretty positive results by replacing S-video/DIN4 connectors with BNC connectors and using BNC video cable.

Doing that entirely defeats the point of using the S-Video output. BNC is just the "pro" plug for a composite connection, if you rewire an S-video jack to BNC you're just converting it to composite. Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I can't imagine why you would rip out S-Video jacks and replace them with BNC.

I have a dozen VCRs in rotation at any given time to perform my VHS digitizing, at all levels from cheap 2-head monophonic machines, plain SVHS with no TBC/DNR, SVHS with TBC/DNR, and DVHS with TBC/DNR. When playing ordinary low-res VHS, the difference between the composite and S-video connections is minimal or zero most of the time if TBC/DNR is inactive: sometimes the S-Video output is noisier, sometimes better. The difference between low-line S-VHS with no TBC/DNR and the higher-end units with their TBC/DNR activated is far more significant. (Of course, when playing true SVHS tapes all SVHS vcrs produce an upgraded image and it will usually look better using the S-Video connections, with or without TBC/DNR.)

My Panasonic AG1980 and AG5710 (similar to PAL NV-FS200) have S-video and BNC jacks but no RCA composite. The S-Video connection in these units does offer slightly better PQ playing non-SVHS tapes, but not always. When connecting these "pro" Panasonics to most other consumer hardware, a BNC to RCA adapter cord is required when S-Video proves less desirable: depending on the cord or adapter, playback can be inferior to a consumer VCR using standard RCA composite jacks.

Of the SVHS vcrs available second hand, 90% are basic consumer models with no performance upgrades over standard VHS models. In many cases in many countries there is a large price difference between these otherwise-identical units (i.e., a Mitsubishi HS-U448 might be $40 while asking prices for the HS-U748 SVHS might be $100). Since these basic-model SVHS vcrs offer no significant advantage, there is no added value to justify the price difference. Sure, if one can acquire the SVHS version at a very reasonable price, then it is preferable in terms of tape format flexibility. But I wouldn't recommend paying extra for an SVHS vcr to "improve" your regular VHS tapes unless you go all the way, and get a top model with TBC/DNR.

A fancy VCR and cable does not magically improve your tapes from the usual VHS murk to "WOW!" quality. Achieving "WOW!" quality requires experience, skill, a range of hardware and PC software, and good quality source tapes. LordSmurf did not become LordSmurf overnight simply via the purchase of a JVC SVHS vcr: he became LordSmurf by doing a LOT of transfer projects over time. If all one has is two or three precious tapes that they want digital copies of with maximum restoration quality, it makes a lot more sense to pay an expert like LordSmurf to do the work for you. Risking money and wasting time rolling the dice on expensive used VCRs and testing different digitizing techniques and learning PC filters is silly unless you have a huge tape library and expect to make a long-term hobby out of converting them.

[juhok]

Heh, I'm using one BNC for Y and one for C. No conversion. Don't take me for a fool.

This kind of setup for example fixed problems with cable reflection with TBC-100 (attachment)

"But I wouldn't recommend paying extra for an SVHS vcr to "improve" your regular VHS tapes unless you go all the way, and get a top model with TBC/DNR." - Yes I would agree.

[bendixG15]

I have to admit, this is one of the better VHS threads in a long time.

[jman98]

Can anyone think of an example of a professional restoration of a VHS source by a big studio that looks amazingly stellar?

Few of them use VHS. A lot of it is transferred from more obscure tape formats. The issue is the studio people tend to only know hardware. The irony is a VHS version would have looked better because of better S-VHS equipment workflows. The obscure methods often require after-the-fact software work that is far outside the scope of their knowledge base.

I land a few of those jobs, from time to time, when they decide to actually put effort into its restoration.

Disclaimer - I have NOT seen what I am going to mention. So do NOT make the incorrect assumption that just because I mentioned this that I am saying that it looks "amazingly stellar".

Farscape was produced for BluRay using PAL VHS masters. As I have no interest in the show, have never seen it, and probably never will, I cannot personally comment on how good or bad the BluRays are. The Wikipedia article on the show seems to imply that BluRays are fan-freakin'-tastic, but reviewers on Amazon have basically said something along the lines of "Better than I expected coming from VHS sources, but nobody would think that this was originally shot in HD". I just mention this for the curious who might want to see what a professional "Mastered from VHS sources" BluRay release looks like.

[juhok]

Disclaimer - I have NOT seen what I am going to mention. So do NOT make the incorrect assumption that just because I mentioned this that I am saying that it looks "amazingly stellar".

Farscape was produced for BluRay using PAL VHS masters. As I have no interest in the show, have never seen it, and probably never will, I cannot personally comment on how good or bad the BluRays are. The Wikipedia article on the show seems to imply that BluRays are fan-freakin'-tastic, but reviewers on Amazon have basically said something along the lines of "Better than I expected coming from VHS sources, but nobody would think that this was originally shot in HD". I just mention this for the curious who might want to see what a professional "Mastered from VHS sources" BluRay release looks like.

The idea that "PAL master videotapes" would be VHS is ridiculous. Propably BetacamSP (or Digibeta!) or something along the line. Wikipedia says nothing about VHS and VHS hasn't been used for studio master tapes propably ever, not counting some highschool production.

[jman98]

The idea that "PAL master videotapes" would be VHS is ridiculous. Propably BetacamSP (or Digibeta!) or something along the line. Wikipedia says nothing about VHS and VHS hasn't been used for studio master tapes propably ever, not counting some highschool production.

You misunderstood my point, but I accept responsibility for incorrect phrasing. Let me try again.

The BluRays were made using PAL VHS as a source as the original film elements were thrown away and NTSC and PAL VHS copies were all they had left to work from. PAL was selected because it offers higher resolution than NTSC. Please forget that I said "master" as it led to an incorrect assumption on your part and honestly it wasn't the right term to use anyway.