is cost differential worth it ?

[kjmdigital]

What would be the major differences between say a $130.00 plextor dvd burner and say an NEC 3500 series running around $40.00....and is the price difference worth the purchase of the Plextor ?

[lordsmurf]

You're paying more for the Plextor name, which doesn't really mean anything. NEC and Pioneer are better burners, among others.

Throwing away money is all you'd be doing.

[samijubal]

I've had a 3500 for 2+ years and many hundreds of burns, the thing could take a bullet and still do perfect burns every time.

[dun4cheap]

I agree, in the early years plextor and sony with there large caches saved from bad burns, but with the eide bus being quicker, cpus being quicker not to mention better burn proof support, I say your money would be better spent in 2 or 3 NECs or pioneers.

[rkr1958]

You're paying more for the Plextor name, which doesn't really mean anything. NEC and Pioneer are better burners, among others.

Which NEC and Pioneer models do you like the best under $60? Which one do you recommend?

[noki]

3550A for $35.
7170A for $29 if former N/A.

Great, reliable stuff.

Update...
3550A for $29.99 w_free shipping at Fry's online.

[SingSing]

What would be the major differences between say a $130.00 plextor dvd burner and say an NEC 3500 series running around $40.00....and is the price difference worth the purchase of the Plextor ?

I have 4 DVD burners, All of them burn DVD well. But NEC3530A is absoultely the best in reading scartched disc, it is a god send.

[rkr1958]

3550A for $35.
7170A for $29 if former N/A.

Great, reliable stuff.

Update...
3550A for $29.99 w_free shipping at Fry's online.

Just placed my order for one. I currently have a Plextor 712a which I very happy with except that it doesn't have DL capability. I got it around two years ago for $30 after rebates and have had very good luck with it.

$30 for the NEC 3550A w/free shipping and DL capability seems to good to pass on. By the way, does this writer support Bit Setting?

[lordsmurf]

You're paying more for the Plextor name, which doesn't really mean anything. NEC and Pioneer are better burners, among others.

Which NEC and Pioneer models do you like the best under $60? Which one do you recommend?

Pioneer 111D (S701 is the Best Buy model # for the 111 drive)

NEC 3500 or newer is fine. Anything with higher model number than 3500

[SCDVD]

Plextor reached the peak of their reputation a few years ago with CD burners. They developed a reputation as the "best" CD burner for audio. They did a better job than other burners handling track gaps without inducing noise in the gaps. They also supported burning Karaoke. But the situation has changed, however a few of their loyalist customers are stuck in the past. NEC and Pioneer outclass them now - and for a lot less money.

[rkr1958]

1. I finally got around to pulling my Plextor 712a and putting in the NEC3500A that I bought last November for $30 from Frys.
2. I did a burn and was extremely disappointed with the scan results.
3. I then pulled the NEC3500A and put back in my Plextor 712a.
4. I burned the same image, using the same application (Imgburn), the same media (TYG02) and at the same speed (4x).
5. I got a much better scan, especially for the PIFs. Both scans were done on my Sony DVD-ROM drive using Nero speed test. So the only difference is the DVD writer.

[soundforbjt]

1. I finally got around to pulling my Plextor 712a and putting in the NEC3500A that I bought last November for $30 from Frys.
2. I did a burn and was extremely disappointed with the scan results.
3. I then pulled the NEC3500A and put back in my Plextor 712a.
4. I burned the same image, using the same application (Imgburn), the same media (TYG02) and at the same speed (4x).
5. I got a much better scan, especially for the PIFs. Both scans were done on my Sony DVD-ROM drive using Nero speed test. So the only difference is the DVD writer.

If that's how you do scans, no wonder the results are so far off. You NEVER use a dvd-rom to scan disc's. The scan speed should also be 8X not maximum.

[rkr1958]

If that's how you do scans, no wonder the results are so far off. You NEVER use a dvd-rom to scan disc's. The scan speed should also be 8X not maximum.

I disagree. I've compared the PIF errors and failures in a number of scans using my Sony DVD-ROM w/Nero Speed against scans using my Plextor 712a w/Plextools profressional. Peak PIF failures match exactly between the two. Aveage PIF failures and max & ave PIF errors match closely.

For whatever that's worth this has convinced me that Sony DVD-ROM w/Nero Speed produces compable scans to those using my Plextor 712a w/Plextools professional and with two big advantages. Nero speed is much quicker and will give me PIF errors and failures in a single scan. Plextools professional takes two. In fact, I'll provide Plextool PIF scans for the two scans above. It'll be later today, but I'll get them to you as soon as I have them.

[genki500]

NEC 3550 is not the greatest reader, it's not uncommon its scan looks bad. Lite-on drive is the most use for scanning result. Try one and see the difference.

[samijubal]

Why are you burning 8x media that will burn at 12x at 4x? I get excellent results at 8x with G02s burned on a 3500 with 2.1 manufacterer firmware.

[oldandinthe way]

According to the Optical Storage Technology Association , a consortium of drive and media manufacturers, scans on any drive other than the drive which has written the media are not valid as a test of either the drive or the media.

If you scan on your SONY DVD-Rom you are are best identifying you are at best measuring compatibility with that drive.


the Optical Storage Technology Association

Specialized computer software controlling everyday DVD-ROM drives can also be used to read a disc at a lower level of organization to verify that its physical and logical formats conform to industry specifications. In all cases it is assumed that the testing tool used broadly represents the behavior of the general population of reading and playing devices in the market. However, this may or may not be a valid assumption given the wide variety of readout optical systems and the error detection and correction (EDAC) circuitry and strategies in use.

In other words - scanning on your drive may be useless and meaningless.

For more information on disk testing and verification

http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa12.htm

[classfour]

As a Plextor owner (712A, 712SA, 716UF) and NEC (3520, 3500) owner: I just can't justify spending extra. I like the quiet speed of the Plextors when reading. I like the burn. I didn't like waiting six months for the right firmware to come out.

Anymore, I shop Samsung or LiteOn or Pioneer or Sony - I'm cheap.

Read your PM's please / Moderator

[lordsmurf]

According to the Optical Storage Technology Association , a consortium of drive and media manufacturers, scans on any drive other than the drive which has written the media are not valid as a test of either the drive or the media.

If you scan on your SONY DVD-Rom you are are best identifying you are at best measuring compatibility with that drive.

the Optical Storage Technology Association

Specialized computer software controlling everyday DVD-ROM drives can also be used to read a disc at a lower level of organization to verify that its physical and logical formats conform to industry specifications. In all cases it is assumed that the testing tool used broadly represents the behavior of the general population of reading and playing devices in the market. However, this may or may not be a valid assumption given the wide variety of readout optical systems and the error detection and correction (EDAC) circuitry and strategies in use.

In other words - scanning on your drive may be useless and meaningless.

For more information on disk testing and verification

http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa12.htm

This is largely a response to self-proclaimed "experts" online in forums, who have extremely warped realities when it concerns blank media.

Scanning is more for entertainment value than anything else.

At most, it's a statement on the drive and how the drive interacts with media, than the quality of the media itself.

Media must be tested in a number of ways, before it can be judged good or bad. It's not a simple freeware installation and a few clicks to get such an analysis. Your average online half-wit doesn't comprehend this (and I'm not referring to any VH members).

[oldandinthe way]

Lordsmurf

Indeed we are in agreement.

I have zero experience with the specific drives the OP owns, but I know that he has not performed any tests which tell him the relative merit of his drives.

Far too many people on the Internet make blanket statements about the quality of drives or media without any understanding of the issues.

If they did they would understand why there is no unanimity of experience.

[rkr1958]

If that's how you do scans, no wonder the results are so far off. You NEVER use a dvd-rom to scan disc's. The scan speed should also be 8X not maximum.

I disagree. ....

OK - I'm all wet and I now need to eat some crow. Here are the results from Plextools Pro scans of the two discs on my Plextor 712a.

ND3500A, PIF (ave,max,total): .05, 5, 7126
Plextor 712a PIF(ave,max,tot): .02, 4, 2845
ND3500A, PIE (ave,max,total): 3.33, 20, 55825
Plextor 712a PIE(ave,max,tot): 4.96, 49, 83083

PI-errors are close with ND3500A slightly better. The PI-failues, on average, are much better with the 712a but both have similar peaks. As you can see below the scans on the 712a w/Plextools look nothing like the scans on the Sony w/Nero speed.

One thing I did noticed during the burns, even at 4x, the device buffer for the ND3500A dropped to below 10% three of four times but quickly jumped back to over 95%. The device buffer for the Plextor 712a burn stayed at 97 or 98% and never dropped.

[budz]

This is largely a response to self-proclaimed "experts" online in forums, who have extremely warped realities when it concerns blank media.

Scanning is more for entertainment value than anything else.

At most, it's a statement on the drive and how the drive interacts with media, than the quality of the media itself.

Media must be tested in a number of ways, before it can be judged good or bad. It's not a simple freeware installation and a few clicks to get such an analysis. Your average online half-wit doesn't comprehend this (and I'm not referring to any VH members).

How about posting this at CdFreaks.com in their media section. :P

[lordsmurf]

This is largely a response to self-proclaimed "experts" online in forums, who have extremely warped realities when it concerns blank media. Scanning is more for entertainment value than anything else. At most, it's a statement on the drive and how the drive interacts with media, than the quality of the media itself. Media must be tested in a number of ways, before it can be judged good or bad. It's not a simple freeware installation and a few clicks to get such an analysis. Your average online half-wit doesn't comprehend this (and I'm not referring to any VH members).

How about posting this at CdFreaks.com in their media section. :P

Because a large number of those folks qualify as the "average online half-wit". However, a few of the smarter ones do seem to be coming to their senses on this topic. They realize scanning is limited in scope.

[nicky57]

This is largely a response to self-proclaimed "experts" online in forums, who have extremely warped realities when it concerns blank media. Scanning is more for entertainment value than anything else. At most, it's a statement on the drive and how the drive interacts with media, than the quality of the media itself. Media must be tested in a number of ways, before it can be judged good or bad. It's not a simple freeware installation and a few clicks to get such an analysis. Your average online half-wit doesn't comprehend this (and I'm not referring to any VH members).

How about posting this at CdFreaks.com in their media section. :P

Because a large number of those folks qualify as the "average online half-wit". However, a few of the smarter ones do seem to be coming to their senses on this topic. They realize scanning is limited in scope.

I guess your the only expert who knows anything. You are so full of yourself.
OT- Liteon is also an excellent choice for a burner.

[bbanderic]

One thing I did noticed during the burns, even at 4x, the device buffer for the ND3500A dropped to below 10% three of four times but quickly jumped back to over 95%. The device buffer for the Plextor 712a burn stayed at 97 or 98% and never dropped.

The device buffer drop is normal on the NEC drives, I have an NEC 3520, it does the same thing, something to do with calibration.

That NEC 3500 is an excellent burner, but older, I'd be sure to have the newest firmware installed.

I have the NEC 3520 and the Pio 111 and I'll stand by them 200%, they're both excellent burners. I think the Plextors are way overpriced, I fairly certain they're just rebadged Ben Q's or Lite-On's, I don't believe they make their own drives.

[bbanderic]

$30 for the NEC 3550A w/free shipping and DL capability seems to good to pass on. By the way, does this writer support Bit Setting?

The NEC drives do not support bitsetting on SL media but do automatically support bitsetting for DL media, same goes for Pioneer. If you want SL bitsetting you'd have to go with a hacked firmware.

If you have a newer DVD player bitsetting is pretty much irrelevent for SL DVD+R, probably the reason NEC and Pioneer don't support it, definitely still needed for DL though.

[lordsmurf]

I guess your the only expert who knows anything. You are so full of yourself.

OSTA and NIST have largely come to the same conclusions, by the way. In case you missed it, OldAndInTheWay posted the OSTA information in an earlier post. The LOC is also not convinced with a good deal of the "test" methods out there either.

Internet know-nothings like yourself can play all day with your scans, but it doesn't actually mean anything.

I've read some of the most ridiculous bullshit about DVD media these past few weeks. It ranges from people who think Princo is better than Taiyo Yuden, to folks that throw away good burns because their DVD burner scans were not perfect. At what point do some of these people finally realize they're being retarded?

I think "freaks" is a good description for the people who partake in this silly behavior.
Consider some definitions of the word freak:
- a thing that is unusual or irregular
- abnormally formed
- a whim
- eccentric or nonconformist person
- to behave irrationally and uncontrollably
- to become greatly excited or upset

What we have are:
Unusual, whimsical, abnormal, non-conformist, eccentric, irrational people who get greatly excited or upset when disagreed with, on the topic of CD/DVD media.

Good grief, that does sound familiar, doesn't it!

[budz]

I guess your the only expert who knows anything. You are so full of yourself.

OSTA and NIST have largely come to the same conclusions, by the way. In case you missed it, OldAndInTheWay posted the OSTA information in an earlier post. The LOC is also not convinced with a good deal of the "test" methods out there either.

Internet know-nothings like yourself can play all day with your scans, but it doesn't actually mean anything.

I've read some of the most ridiculous bullshit about DVD media these past few weeks. It ranges from people who think Princo is better than Taiyo Yuden, to folks that throw away good burns because their DVD burner scans were not perfect. At what point do some of these people finally realize they're being retarded?

I think "freaks" is a good description for the people who partake in this silly behavior.
Consider some definitions of the word freak:
- a thing that is unusual or irregular
- abnormally formed
- a whim
- eccentric or nonconformist person
- to behave irrationally and uncontrollably
- to become greatly excited or upset

What we have are:
Unusual, whimsical, abnormal, non-conformist, eccentric, irrational people who get greatly excited or upset when disagreed with, on the topic of CD/DVD media.

Good grief, that does sound familiar, doesn't it!

Silly behavior you say! Are you just bitter at Cdfreaks.com because in the past you got razzed over there in the PIONEER & MEDIA forums? :P If you think the members at cdfreaks.com are silly because they do quality scans, then why have you gone to their forums seeking answers? It seems you're always talking from 2 sides of your mouth. I do quality scans if the discs don't playback correctly which I see nothing wrong with that. I have always taken your postings/advice in this forum with a grain of salt. I'd trust the members at Cdfreaks.com than some of the silly postings you have in here when it comes to dvdrewriters/media/quality scans. WTH! No one really knows how long a dvd disc will last. By that time there'll be some other format to replace dvd media. :P

rkr1958: I would have recommended you buying the latest PIONEER 112 drive over the NEC drive. Just my 2 big freaking cents!

[lordsmurf]

The term "quality scans" is a bit of an oxymoron. If you knew anything about media, then you would probably be able to more easily recognize this fact. Stop being brainwashed by self-proclaimed experts in, of all places, online forums. You may as well rely on Best Buy employees, as they are equally qualified in the subject.

I don't think you'll find me seeking many answers outside of asking what the newest firmware is for a few burners, on the site you refer to. Those people have largely made up their mind on issues there, and facts be damned.

"No one really knows how long a DVD disc will last" is also not really all that true. That's more Internet myth, proliferated in forums. There is enough data to safely extrapolate answers. And it does not rely on those silly scans.

It's a shame the Internet is becoming so full of bullshit. Between wikipedia editors that make up information as they go along, to forums/blogs where people suddenly become experts at anything ... between their myspace and youtube posts, no doubt.... the entire existence of cyberspace is slowly but surely turning into a toilet.

Grain of salt, indeed! It's really quite sad. Even 2-3 years ago, the Internet was not this bad.

User forums are starting to be as bad as Fox News ... the more you watch/read these sources, the dumber you get.

[budz]

The term "quality scans" is a bit of an oxymoron. If you knew anything about media, then you would probably be able to more easily recognize this fact. Stop being brainwashed by self-proclaimed experts in, of all places, online forums. You may as well rely on Best Buy employees, as they are equally qualified in the subject.

I don't think you'll find me seeking many answers outside of asking what the newest firmware is for a few burners, on the site you refer to. Those people have largely made up their mind on issues there, and facts be damned.

"No one really knows how long a DVD disc will last" is also not really all that true. That's more Internet myth, proliferated in forums. There is enough data to safely extrapolate answers. And it does not rely on those silly scans.

It's a shame the Internet is becoming so full of bullshit. Between wikipedia editors that make up information as they go along, to forums/blogs where people suddenly become experts at anything ... between their myspace and youtube posts, no doubt.... the entire existence of cyberspace is slowly but surely turning into a toilet.

Grain of salt, indeed! It's really quite sad. Even 2-3 years ago, the Internet was not this bad.

User forums are starting to be as bad as Fox News ... the more you watch/read these sources, the dumber you get.

And you're on the internet right, so therefore you're just as bad as the next guy. You say you've gone to cdfreaks.com for firmwares? LmFaO! As you say the internet is full of BS and by god you're so full of it as well!

[offline]

Keep it civil please people.