Caputuring VHS problem

[bob52]

Hello

I seem to have problems capturing VHS footage on my Laptop, I'm using PowerDirector 11 and i want to capture raw footage

I keep getting this message even thought im using the camcorder as a pass-thru




Can someone help thanks

[Brad]

Worth giving WinDV a shot instead.

It sounds like you hit the wrong button and the software thinks you're trying to record to the device rather than capture from it, though.

[bob52]

Hi

Thanks will try this program (its tiny download), Is it still good as its over 11 years old since a update if so is there a guide to what options to set to capture raw vhs footage i know i need to install Huffy codec to capture
thanks

[Brad]

Huffyuv has nothing to do with capturing using a camcorder's passthrough feature. You'll be capturing using the built-in DV codec of the camera. Install Cedocida on your system though.

Yes it's still good. I think some people mentioned running it in XP Compatibility Mode, perhaps.

[bob52]

Hello

I did a little test today and it seems that the footages from different tapes i tryed has what i think looks like 'mosquito noise' (well my description) Ive uploaded the 10 sec clip (cooking program) which was recorded off tv about 1998, also the family wedding videos suffer the same problem

TBC was on. CVC was on, But 3DDNR was off in this posted Clip

Used WinDV to capture Raw

Is the VCR faulty (had it serviced 2 months ago)
Is the Svideo cable too cheap
Is there a missing codec (forgot to install Cedocida)
Ive tryed switching TBC on/off does not help
Ive tryed switching 3DDNR on/off does not help
CVC (Crystal View Control) is on, but dont know how to switch off (No Remote) could that be the problem
Is the Notebook Underpowered (Core 2 T7600 2.3Ghz, Quadro FX3600, 4GB Ram, 200GB HD)

Any advice appreciated

[jagabo]

You have dot crawl artifacts -- incomplete separation of the chroma carrier from the luma channel. 3d comb filters usually don't work well with noisy shaky VHS source. Something like Blur(1.5, 0.0).Sharpen(1.0, 0.0) in AviSynth will get rid of it without too much damage to the underlying picture. You can then follow up with the usual denoising filters.

[Brad]

If you're going to encode for DVD and not Blu-ray, cropping to 704x480 then resizing to 352x480 blurs away the line artifacts and keeps the actual detail.

That actually looks remarkably good for VHS. I don't see halos popping out... What's the VCR and camcorder?

[bob52]

Hi

The VCR is a PAL Panasonic NV-HS960B is VGC inside and out (lucky find) No remote though
Camcorder is a Panasonic NV-GS200EB

My end result is Capture Raw, Clean as much up has i can (with software), output as 720 x 576 (MP4 container, H264 codec) saved the mp4 files onto BDR as my LG Bluray plays Mp4 files

Is the actual Res of VHS 352 x 480 as i seem to be capturing at 720 X 576 (winDV) would this be done after raw capture, and would 352 x 480 look really blocky on a 1080p LED Tv (compared to 720 x 576) dont mind if there is no loss going down to 352 x 480

[jagabo]

I agree, your VHS deck and tape appear to have a bit more detail than the typical deck and tape.

Is the actual Res of VHS 352 x 480

Your video has a bit more horizontal bandwidth than 352 pixels can capture. If you downscale to 352 then upscale back to 720 you'll see some of the small picture details get blurred. I wouldn't make a half-D1 (352x576) DVD. If you use the downscale/upscale technique to reduce the dot crawl artifacts try sizes around 400 to 480 pixels wide for the downscale. The smaller the downscaled image the better noise reduction you get -- but you lose more picture detail once you get below the actual resolution of the underlying image. If you don't downscale enough the dot crawl artifacts won't be reduced much.

[Brad]

Hmm, I didn't see any detail loss using Lanczos both ways.

And yeah I meant 352x576, not x480.

[jagabo]

Save before and after PNG images. Use Windows' Photo Viewer to flip back and forth between the two images with the left/right arrow keys. Use a 4x screen magnifier. Look at sharp vertical lines and edges.

[bob52]

Trying to get to grips with a AviSynth script (Its Hard)

Ive put gg,avi in c:\gg.avi

the script is this

AviSource("c:\gg.avi")
Blur(1.5, 0.0).Sharpen(1.0, 0.0)

saves as myclip.avs

When i doubleclick the myclip.avs it loads up the gg.avi in Vdub

Has the filter script been applied yet

Which of the 2 windows is the in Vdub script been applied too left,right i cant tell the difference



There no sound

when i save the avi file , its much bigger than the 70MB version ,using direct stream copy for video, cant use direct stream copy for audio



..



.

[davexnet]

Directstreamcopy when using an avisynth script can produce HUGE files, since Avisynth is providing uncompressed frames to Virtualdub.
Why not save to a lossless codec and use video/compression. The right window reflects usage of Virtualdub's own filters.

[manono]

Which of the 2 windows is the in Vdub script been applied too left,right i cant tell the difference

Assuming you haven't applied any VDub filters, both windows are the same. When opening an AviSynth script in VDub, the results of any filtering in your script (here your blur and sharpen) are being shown.

[Brad]

Just to make it clear, your DV files are lossy compressed at a ratio of 5:1. To do any visual processing you have to decompress these into an uncompressed video format. You can save the result to a lossless file with a compression ratio somewhere in the vicinity of 2:1 to 3:1 (varies based on image content and how slow the codec is) which will only play on computers, or incur a generation loss and recompress to another lossy format.

Ideally you should do all intermediate processing in lossless format so that you incur only one generation loss at the end when you encode for your "delivery" format.

Use a 4x screen magnifier.

Oh, I see it now on the edges of some of the metal dishes. I usually use 2x since I don't have a 4K monitor. But after spotting them with 4x they are visible at 2x.

I'm jealous of your VHS, bob52. Wonder if there is an NTSC equivalent to that VCR (I see it does play NTSC but that must be PAL60).

BTW, this is the artifact we're all talking about, right? To me it looks like TV aerial transmission interference rather than what I would describe as dot crawl. Of course, he said his wedding video shows it too...

[bob52]

Hello

Sorry for the delay in responding Its sunday and i was at church with my family, Since the cooking clip was a recording of a Tv Transmission, I thought id upload a proper VHS clip from a a normal camcorder clip, This is a 20 sec 21st birthday clip of a friend recorded in 1992..... Is the clip suffering from the same problem as the cooking clip or is it worse

thanks

[jagabo]

BTW, this is the artifact we're all talking about, right? To me it looks like TV aerial transmission interference rather than what I would describe as dot crawl.

It's incomplete separation of the chroma and luma signals from a composite source. The usual dot crawl artifacts you see at the edges of colored objects are what's left after a more effective comb filter.

[Brad]

Okay!

The wedding video appears to be suffering similarly, maybe not as bad though? I would try a better S-Video cable.

[bob52]

Hello

Just got a Belkin Pure AV cable just this morning (£5.95) and tryed the same clip as before with this cable




.



.

New Clip

[Brad]

Did you change any camera or VCR settings? The new capture has a lot of chroma noise, not present in the first one...

[jagabo]

It's also sharper, more saturated, has worse over sharpening halos, more luma noise, and the opposite field order. But the chroma/luma crosstalk has gone away!

[bob52]

Hello

sorry for the delay, ive not changed any options on the VCR, just change the Svideo Cable, would you like me to post another couple of 10 Sec clips, using both cables so that you can spot any difference, very surprised the new better cable is performing worse than the generic cable.

I'm assume the Cooking vcr clip, will always be better capture because .....a) The BBC would have used a Pro video camera costing £10,000s, so broadcast quality would have been good ..... whereas the wedding movie would have been captured on a camcorder costing few £1000

thanks again for your advice

[bob52]

Hello

Just uploaded 4 Clips Cook_SVID_GENERIC, Cook_SVID_BELKIN, WED_SVID_GENERIC, WED_SVID_BELKIN (Generic being the old unbranded SVideo cable, and Belkin meaning the new Belkin SVideo Cable)

I also found that the Belkin cable requires a lot more effect to force into the VCR Svideo connection even when the connectors a lined up compared to the Unbranded one, I dont want to use too much force as i dont want to damage the Svideo connection on the VCR so ive force the cable in as much as it will go (I Hope)

I dont know if the VHS Tapes used would make a difference so have provided the Info as well


<Tests> TBC on, 3DDNR off, CVC on


Tape 1 SP Mode HS High Quality Standard TDK E120

WED_SVID_GENERIC
WED_SVID_BELKIN

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tape 2 SP Mode Scotch EG+ E120

Cook_SVID_GENERIC
Cook_SVID_BELKIN

Hope this information helps and sheds more light onto any problems

[Brad]

Not sure what the deal is here. Perhaps you could try yet another cable. :S

[bob52]

Hello

Sorry for the delay, hospital appointments and test, Did anyone notice any difference between the capture tests, and which cable of the 2 to use

Thanks

[vhelp]

so i take it that the clip was a recent test tv_broadcast->vcr_tape->dvcam->"ggg.14-01-25_23-35.00.avi" as a preliminary for review and suggestions....the one about the dough making. was that for pizza ? after all these years, i am still on the hunt for the best pizza dough making

[jagabo]

The biggest difference is the lack of luma/chroma crosstalk in the Belkin cable. I would use that.