Looking for CC DVD-to-DVD Editing Tool

[newsgroup guy]

Hello.

I need a DVD-to-DVD editor, sort of like Nero Vision, capable to import a DVD structure, to cut/edit it, and finally to output another DVD structure BUT TO BE ABLE TO DO ALL THIS WHILE KEEPING THE CLOSED CAPTIONING available (ESPECIALLY THE ROLLING ONES - that keep adding a new line at the bottom, and removing the top line, all the time - which cannot be saved to .srt with tools like VSRip).

I remember an older version of Nero Vision, called "NeroVision Express" back then, used to do this DVD-to-DVD conversion properly 6-8 years ago (keeping any CCs).
The new additions to Nero Burning ROM, like the much weakened Nero Vision and Nero Recode, are completely useless to me now. Just like TMPGEnc Authoring Works, Nero Vision removes closed captioning completely, while Nero Recode doesn't even allow any kind of editing of the video titles in the DVD structure.
(As for the old Nero, I've been trying to find that old kit without success thus far.)

Could use some help.

Thanks.

[usually_quiet]

I have not seen a frame-accurate editor that can import a DVD structure. If nobody can give you a recommendation for one, there may be another way.

VOB2MPG can losslessly convert VOBs on a DVD to mpgs files. (IFO mode works best.) Since the conversion is lossless, the resulting mpg files will still have closed captions. The mpg files can then be edited with MPEG-VCR, an inexpensive editor which allows both frame-accurate editing with smart encoding and GOP-level editing. MPEG-VCR can also import individual VOBs directly. Smart encoding only encodes partial GOPs created by editing, and GOP level editing won't require re-encoding at all. Obviously, if closed captions occur at a cut point, they will be affected, but otherwise MPEG-VCR preserves closed captioning using either of these two options for editing. You can re-author a new DVD with AVStoDVD or DVDStyler.

[manono]

I have not seen a frame-accurate editor that can import a DVD structure.

If frame accuracy isn't important, then VobBlanker can cut on GOPs. I know it'll retain subtitles. I assume it'll also retain CCs, but have never tried it for that specifically. It'll keep all menus and anything else that's on the DVD.

[newsgroup guy]

How much inaccuracy are we talking about, Manono?

Of course I don't want a program that can't even read a DVD structure properly. Like, if it reads the duration wrong, or sees frames from 3 seconds later into a previous scene, then obviously it's no good.
Even if it only cuts on every second, as opposed to every frame / every 3 frames / every 4 frames (like Vegas / TMPGEnc AW / NeroVision respectively) it would still be less than suitable for this project.

With your suggestion in mind, you should know that my programs have options to save the subtitles, too. ('Cause you're not sure if it can save CCs but you're sure about subs.) They for sure can't save closed captioning, on the other hand, though, but capable of handling subs they are.


Usually_quiet, I'm sorry, man, but I don't think I can follow most of your post. For example, how can MPGs have (usable) closed captioning? (You just burn a file like that to a DVD -- ISO or UDF style -- and your DVD player + TV are just going to read everything fine, even the original CCs? I'd find that hard to believe, to say the least.) And your first sentence totally baffles me. Did you mean "I have not seen a frame-accurate editor that can import a DVD structure and retains closed captioning."? Say, you've read my inquiry attentively, right? (I want DVD-to-DVD. That should be simple, lots of programs, no? However, I'd just like to find one that for sure does not get rid of the CCs in its rendering process. There's the rub.)


Surely someone somewhere must have wanted to edit something from TV and keep the unavailable-elsewhere-even-as-subtitles closed captions!?!...

[manono]

How much inaccuracy are we talking about, Manono?

I said it can cut on GOP boundaries. Those are usually roughly half a second apart. They also usually occur at scene changes so if you're cutting scenes then it should be fine for that as well. When viewing the preview to determine where to cut, you'll see the correct duration and the right frames.

There's a guide for cutting using VobBlanker:

http://download.videohelp.com/jsoto/guides/VobBlanker/prevcut/index.php

[newsgroup guy]

Oh, okay, thanks. (I had no idea what a GOP boundary was. And I still don't know what GOP is. But I'll look it up now. - It's not the Republican party, in this context, that's for sure. -)

[usually_quiet]

Usually_quiet, I'm sorry, man, but I don't think I can follow most of your post. For example, how can MPGs have (usable) closed captioning? (You just burn a file like that to a DVD -- ISO or UDF style -- and your DVD player + TV are just going to read everything fine, even the original CCs? I'd find that hard to believe, to say the least.) And your first sentence totally baffles me. Did you mean "I have not seen a frame-accurate editor that can import a DVD structure and retains closed captioning."? Say, you've read my inquiry attentively, right? (I want DVD-to-DVD. That should be simple, lots of programs, no? However, I'd just like to find one that for sure does not get rid of the CCs in its rendering process. There's the rub.)

DVD closed captions aren't in one of the subtitle streams. DVD closed captions are stored in the MPEG-2 GOP user data. As long as the MPEG-2 GOP user data isn't changed, the closed captions won't be affected. Re-encoding is one of the things that can wipe away closed captions.

I convert VOBs from DVDs with closed captions into .mpgs using VOBtoMPG on a regular basis. There is no re-encoding going on, so the closed captions are unchanged after converting. I can watch the .mpg file with VLC and view the closed captions or extract the closed captions from the .mpg file to an .srt file with CCExtractor.

Of course the .mpg files aren't playable by most DVD players, which is why I suggested two different DVD authoring programs for creating a new DVD. Re-authoring video obtained from a DVD with either of those programs won't affect the closed captions either, unless you want to do something that requires re-encoding.

Surely someone somewhere must have wanted to edit something from TV and keep the unavailable-elsewhere-even-as-subtitles closed captions!?!...

Yes, me for one, and I've been doing it since 2005. LOL

[newsgroup guy]

Guys, I tried both VOB2MPG and VobBlanker, but they're not doing it for me.
1) VOB2MPG does not edit anything, and I need to cut stuff out.
2) Meanwhile, I've followed the instructions for cutting with VobBlanker, and it truly has the most awful and buggy cutting tool I have ever seen! (Instead of marking where it's supposed to, it always marks at the beginning of every cell, regardless of where I move the cursor and click 'Mark'. And then the output does not even conform to the DVD standard!! VobBlanker's output cannot be open with CloneDVD or PowerDVD, which both give errors, so I can't even see if it did keep any closed captioning.) No, VobBlanker is not a good program (for most people) at all. [Thank heavens it at least does not require installation, so it can be removed by simply deleting its folder.]

You know, Usually_quiet, I tried ccextractorwin.exe first (in both Windows 7 and XP). Maybe it needs something I don't have (- some previous version of .NET framework or something, who the hell knows? -) but it's always telling me "Error user_data: Impossible!". That's why I switched to VSRip. VSRip can save the closed captioning, but only the static ones, that appear and then disappear completely, not the rolling ones which renew a line at the bottom for one at the top seemingly scrolling down all the time.
And for this one program I want to edit now, I really need to save rolling CCs.

So, any other tool?

I haven't tried MPEG-VCR yet, because it's not free, but do you know for sure it can save rolling CCs?

[usually_quiet]

Guys, I tried both VOB2MPG and VobBlanker, but they're not doing it for me.
1) VOB2MPG does not edit anything, and I need to cut stuff out.
2) Meanwhile, I've followed the instructions for cutting with VobBlanker, and it truly has the most awful and buggy cutting tool I have ever seen! (Instead of marking where it's supposed to, it always marks at the beginning of every cell, regardless of where I move the cursor and click 'Mark'. And then the output does not even conform to the DVD standard!! VobBlanker's output cannot be open with CloneDVD or PowerDVD, which both give errors, so I can't even see if it did keep any closed captioning.) No, VobBlanker is not a good program (for most people) at all. [Thank heavens it at least does not require installation, so it can be removed by simply deleting its folder.]

You know, Usually_quiet, I tried ccextractorwin.exe first (in both Windows 7 and XP). Maybe it needs something I don't have (- some previous version of .NET framework or something, who the hell knows? -) but it's always telling me "Error user_data: Impossible!". That's why I switched to VSRip. VSRip can save the closed captioning, but only the static ones, that appear and then disappear completely, not the rolling ones which renew a line at the bottom for one at the top seemingly scrolling down all the time.
And for this one program I want to edit now, I really need to save rolling CCs.

So, any other tool?

I haven't tried MPEG-VCR yet, because it's not free, but do you know for sure it can save rolling CCs?

That is right, VOB2MPG is not an editor. It just copies the video from the DVD's VOB files into a .mpg file so it is easier to edit. If a single TV show spans more than one VOB file, VOB2MPG joins the pieces for you.

Yes I'm sure MPEG-VCR will work, but since it has a 30-day free trial, you can try it and see for yourself without spending a dime. If you like it, the cost is $19.

Here's a snapshot from a video with rolling captions which I edited with MPEG-VCR.

[newsgroup guy]

That is right, VOB2MPG is not an editor. It just copies the video from the DVD's VOB files into a .mpg file so it is easier to edit. If a single TV show spans more than one VOB file, VOB2MPG joins the pieces for you.

Yes I'm sure MPEG-VCR will work, but since it has a 30-day free trial, you can try it and see for yourself without spending a dime. If you like it, the cost is $19.

Here's a snapshot from a video with rolling captions which I edited with MPEG-VCR.

[Attachment 27441 - Click to enlarge]

Awesome! Thanks very much, Usually_quiet!
If indeed MPEG-VCR got that rip for you, then it might be exactly what I'm looking for now.

And 19 bucks is not that much.

Let me see when I can try/get it, and then I'll post back how it went.

P.S. I usually use DVD-lab PRO to get one large 'joined' VOB file. It does that flawlessly. But, with TMPGEnc Authoring Works and NeroVision being able to correctly read files that are part of a DVD structure, I very seldom need to join VOBs.

[newsgroup guy]

Usually_quiet, can I test the closed captioning of the MPG authored with MPEG-VCR by playing it with any media player, or must I always encode it to a DVD structure (for example with DVD-lab) first?

[usually_quiet]

Usually_quiet, can I test the closed captioning of the MPG authored with MPEG-VCR by playing it with any media player, or must I always encode it to a DVD structure (for example with DVD-lab) first?

Use VLC to play the file. Subtitle-> Sub track -> Closed captions 1.

[newsgroup guy]

Once again, you're absolutely right, Usually_quiet!

I see the rolling closed captioning. Excellent, exactly what I wanted.

I guess we can mark this issue as 100% solved.

Thank you very much!! If you were over here, I'd buy you a beer.

[newsgroup guy]

And Womble MPEG-VCR is a very adequate program, people should know. Still very good, thorough and accurate. (Only works with the MPEG family of files, though. VOBs are included. Oh, and it doesn't read DVD structures like TMPGEnc Authoring Works. But still very good for me.)

[usually_quiet]

Yes, MPEG-VCR can only edit MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 video in a limited number of containers, but it can still be very useful for editing DVD video. I have a DVD recorder and initially began using it for removing advertisments.

I have to use VideReDo for editing video from my ATSC tv tuner card because of transmission errors, but if it weren't for that I could be using MPEG-VCR for those as well.

[newsgroup guy]

Yes, I've used it several times now, and I like it. And, man, it's fast! Damn fast! Nice.

I just have one last question, because I'm curious (not at all because I really need it).
I'm wondering whether one can join two or more edited VOBs together into a single video. What I mean is, every VOB opens in an editing window, but if the film is longer than one VOB does one have to join VOBs (using a different program) prior to starting MPEG-VCR or is there a function that one can use to say: that edited VOB plus that edited VOB should be output into one single resulting MPG?
Does the Batch function - I think there's one somewhere - do that, or something else? I know it wants to read a different kind of file, not movie files.

Thank you very much again.

[usually_quiet]

If all the edited clips you want to join are open in MPEG-VCR, add them to the Video Clipboard in the order you want them to be joined by clicking the Copy button in each clip's editing window. Click the Save button in the main window's toolbar (looks like a 3 1/2" floppy) which will save a .wme file (Editor Project File). Open the folder containing the .wme file you just saved in Windows Explorer. Click Tools->Video Clip List. Drag the .wme file from Windows Explorer into the Clip List on the Video Clip List window. Click the OK button. The clips are now together in sequence in the editor window that appears, and can be reviewed, or edited further as a unit, or saved.

Be aware that if the video characteristics of the other clips in the Clip List are dissimilar to the first clip in the Clip List, they will be re-encoded to match the first clip when the edited video is saved. The closed captions in clips that are re-encoded will be lost.

You can also use the Video Clip List to join VOBs prior to editing if you like. Click Tools->Video Clip List. Drag the VOB files from Windows Explorer into the Clip List on the Video Clip List window in the order you want them to be joined. Click the OK button. The VOBs are now together in sequence in the editor window that appears, and can be edited as a unit.

[newsgroup guy]

Thank you very much, yet again, for the advice, Usually_quiet!

I'll be sure to save the information, because I really doubt I'll be able to remember the first strategy in particular.

I did try the second strategy, and it works very well as a path to take, but I don't understand one thing: I added 4 VOBs, amounting to 3.35 GB, and yet MPEG-VCR said the resulting MPG would be over 6 GB. I'll try again, because maybe I did something wrong, but that's indeed what happened the first time I tried this.

Thanks again!

[usually_quiet]

It looks like MPEG-VCR is miscalculating the estimated output. I just tried joining the VOB files from a 2-hour movie I recorded on DVD. MPEG-VCR estimated 8977.462 MB, but the actual file size for the saved video was 4.2 GB

[newsgroup guy]

Oh, that's interesting. (So, it wasn't my mistake.)

Of course, in that particular case, I did not continue with the output because I only had 4.something GB free; I had to cancel.

Good to know, good to know.

Thank you very much.


By the way, I'm still very satisfied in the program. What still amazes me is how the output takes less time than the editing.
P.S. I want to mention, however, for other users who might read this and are interested in playing MPEGs with closed captioning in their DVD players instead of DVD structures, that not all players read the MPEGs (even players that ordinarily read AVIs in addition to regular DVDs). I have a Philips DVD/DivX player which also sees the MPEGs perfectly, but my Toshiba DVD recorder can see AVIs fine and yet is not able to read the MPG files.