Hunt for a new camcorder with excellent audio quality

[techspark]

Hi, i would like to buy a new camcorder which i will be using to record live music concerts. I need a camcorder that has :

1. Good HD video quality capture(Good low light performance is not essential but will be nice to have)
2. External mic input
3. Manual audio controls(very important as the music will be very loud)
4. External headphone input(not necessary though )
5. Under $600

My primary requirement is that the camcorder should do well in adequate light. I don't need great low light performance as i will be shooting mostly in brightly lit environment. I want it to have an external mic input and MOST importantly manual audio gain control where i can adjust the gain myself. As the concert music will be very loud, i need the manual audio control so that i can prevent the audio from cracking up.

I also need suggestions for a decent external mic (stereo/5.1 would be nice). I will not be able to get a direct feed from the music/dj guys , so the external mic should be good enough to eliminate external noise and capture decent audio.

Camcorders that i m currently considering :
1. Panasonic sd90
2. Panasonic tm700
3. Sony cx150e ( i m not sure whether it has an external mic input and if it does , whether it has manual controls)

I have a fairly decent quad core computer with 4 gigs ram , so converting the videos should not be a problem and no problem with the software either.

Looking forward to the replies. Need to buy everything before the 18th of this month. Thanks

[aedipuss]

your best bet for audio performance is an external add on beachtek unit that will take balanced xlr mic in and give you 1/8" cam out. that plus mics and stands to put the mics above the crowd are going to run you over half your cam budget.

the first cam is about the only one that may keep you near your budget, but i don't know if it has manual audio level control.

[edDV]

Most camcorders in that price range lack manual audio control or meters. Download the manual to confirm.

AGC (automatic gain control) typical of low end camcorders is always pumping gain resulting in noise during quiet passages and overshoot on impulsed loud sounds. This is not what you want for music recording.

Also camcorder mics aren't the best way to record. You need to tap the mixer board or set up your own mics and mixer. If you must use a camcorder mic, location is important (e.g centered and away from the bands speakers). Ideal is the 30% angle rule to the bands front L and R main speakers. Best clue to the optimal audio location is near their mixer board.

Pros that shoot concerts always put two cameras in the back. One for wide cover shot and another with tight zoom on the lead singer. Then they have one or two up front for angled close shots and one or more high on jibs for sweep and crowd shots.

[techspark]

Thanks for the replies

your best bet for audio performance is an external add on beachtek unit that will take balanced xlr mic in and give you 1/8" cam out. that plus mics and stands to put the mics above the crowd are going to run you over half your cam budget.

I would like the camcorder to do the audio recording and would prefer not to spend separately on a field recorder.


I m not sure whether to go with panasonic sd90 or tm700. Btw, $600 is only for the camcorder, I can spend about 100-150 more for the external mic.

Also camcorder mics aren't the best way to record. You need to tap the mixer board or set up your own mics and mixer. If you must use a camcorder mic, location is important (e.g centered and away from the bands speakers). Ideal is the 30% angle rule to the bands front L and R main speakers. Best clue to the optimal audio location is near their mixer board.

Pros that shoot concerts always put two cameras in the back. One for wide cover shot and another with tight zoom on the lead singer. Then they have one or two up front for angled close shots and one or more high on jibs for sweep and crowd shots

I know this. I m just looking for decent audio which will be clear and audible when i view the videos on my computer. I am okay with background noise to an extent and i will make sure that i find a good place . Btw, the concert wont be as intense as in the image.

After going through the manual of sd90, this is what i found. (Is this sufficient to control the high pumping sounds ?)

[edDV]

You generally want AGC off and levels set to keep loudest audio out of the red on the peak meters. Goal is to keep distortion minimal and levels consistent. This can be adjusted later in post if you want to play with levels. It is near imposible to fix AGC issues in post.

Get an external mic designed for consumer camcorder external mic inputs (unbalanced, high impedance, mini plug).
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&cp=5&gs_id=v&xhr=t&q=rode+videomic&gs_upl...ed=0CHEQ8wIwBA
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/rode-microphones-stereo-videomic-on-camera-mi...RWXGB&ZYXSEM=0
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004K8WPUQ/ref=asc_df_B004K8WPUQ1814514?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&ta...SIN=B004K8WPUQ << this one is mono.

If you want to use pro balanced XLR mics, you will also need a Beachtek DXA-2T to match impedance and levels.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa2t.html

[techspark]

Thanks for the links. So i think rode stereo mic + panasonic sd90 would be a good combination ?

[edDV]

Thanks for the links. So i think rode stereo mic + panasonic sd90 would be a good combination ?

Check the review
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Panasonic-HDC-TM90-Camcorder-Review.htm

[techspark]

I did some more research and now i am looking at zoom h1 handy recorder. I am thinking of using zoom h1's line out and plug it to pannasonic tm90's mic in...will this work ? How will the quality be like compared to something like rode stereo mic ?

Also , is there anyway i can monitor the sound that is getting recorded.? Tm90 lacks a headphone port and the zoom h1's line out port will be used to feed the audio from zoom h1 to tm90.

The reason for selecting zoom h1 is that i can also use it independtly when i just need to record audio only. I m also wondering if i can use zoom h1's line out and feed the audio to tm90 and at the same time record the audio seperately on an sd card within zoom itself?

[techspark]

Sorry for bumping a very old thread. Just wanted to thank you guys for all the suggestions and thank you edv for clearing all doubts abt AGC and how to record better audio. For those interested - i got zoom h1 and panasonic fz150. It works great for my needs now , i need to do some more learning up now to get better audio and improve the video quality by using manual options.