Re-Taping on MINIDV Tapes, good or bad?

[snapware]

Hi, is it a good idea or bad idea to reuse mini-dv tapes as far as losing quality each time you record on the tape?

[bits]

For throw away video you should be able to reuse the miniDV tape a few times. Keep in mind that time stamps may be messed up however.

For home/family video, stuff you value, it makes no sense to re-use a miniDV tape at $3-4 each. You would have to use a LOT (>50/yr) of miniDV tapes to even come close to a cost justification for reusing. Even then it is hard to put a value on non-replaceable family video, in my world of thinking that type of video is priceless and nothing beats the original!

[edDV]

I reuse MiniDV tapes all the time. For a major project, like a wedding or if I was being paid to tape an event, I would use new tape. Since I don't play from tape extensively, a given tape doesn't have much "mileage". I retire them from active use based on age (~5yrs) rather than use. I keep archive tapes longer.

Broadcasters reuse tape but also use a better grade with non-stretch backing and higher quality contruction. But keep in mind broadcast DV decks cue tapes 10-15x faster than a home camcorder.

Tape would degrade only slightly with moderate reuse. The main issues would be:

- dropouts (gaps due or holes in the magnetic path) MiniDv camcorders have extensive dropout error correction built in that would detect and hide tape dropouts. This was a major problem with Hi8 analog tapes.

- tape stretch -- heavy duty winding can cause tape stretch on cheap consumer MiniDV tapes. This is more a problem for an archive copy than reuse.

- emulsion wear out or dirty heads -- this is where picture failure occurs. Digital recording and playback will be near 100% quality as tape to head S/N drops until it hits the floor where the picture goes massively defective. This will usually happen when heads get dirty rather than from tape emulsion wear.

[rumplestiltskin]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with member "bits". Transfer your mini-DV to your Mac (or PC) and make a DVD. DVDs are much more durable than tape and, should the need ever arise, you can rip the footage back off the DVD and re-edit.

The only way timecodes get messed up is if you fast-forward some and then start recording again. However, this is a problem even with a virgin tape! You should never FF a tape on which you intend to record. All recording should be done from the start to the end (at least to the end of the current recording session for that tape). In this manner, you would eliminate timecode "breaks".

All the above being said, if there are tapes that contain footage that you intend for future projects, then keep them in a cool, relatively dry location - not -too- dry (like El Paso) because tapes don't last in this climate.

So archive your tapes to DVD (or DV-Stream on a hard drive if you have enough space and HDs are pretty cheap these days).

My old "family videos" have been transferred but I kept the tapes around just to see how long they would last. A number of them have already broken (even without being run through decks). Frankly, tape is a pretty lousy archival material.

[gwoiler]

I'll have to respectfully disagree with member "bits". Transfer your mini-DV to your Mac (or PC) and make a DVD. DVDs are much more durable than tape and, should the need ever arise, you can rip the footage back off the DVD and re-edit.

I disagree with you too. I have VHS tapes from 25 years ago that play just fine. Granted... they are not sharp like a DVD or mini DV footage... but they work. How many DVD's have I seen in the last 2 years that quit from a scratch! And I have one CD that has no scratches and will not work anymore because the dye layer has deteriorated. DVD's that were replicated are long range... but burnt DVD's could be a ticking time bomb. No one knows yet. Yeah... the manufacturer says this and that... but thats a sales mentallity. And... don't let that DVD get into direct sunlight for very long... why? Because the die layer is DELICATE!

[rumplestiltskin]

gwoiler,

Your reasoning is sound but some of the problems you describe (with DVDs) are a result of improper handling.

My original reply to "bits" post was intended to speak to the "timecode" issue but I digressed.

[bits]

rumplestiltskin wrote:

I'll have to respectfully disagree with member "bits". Transfer your mini-DV to your Mac (or PC) and make a DVD. DVDs are much more durable than tape and, should the need ever arise, you can rip the footage back off the DVD and re-edit.

I did not suggest not to burn them to HDD or DVD, I said keep them if it is video that is not replaceable such as family stuff. The real point is that to be really sure that you will have your precious memories in the future you should NOT rely on one or even two media types.

From personal experience I have family video transferred from VHS to DVD that is now unreadable. I am extremely thankful that I kept the 26 year old VHS tapes. At the time, as a newbie, there were a number of key things I did not know and I suspect there is still more I need to learn regarding DVD burning. My experience is an all too common one.

HDDs fail or get corrupted all the time and there are a lot stories out there about DVDs that have gone bad, everything from corroding to cracking to warping to ...

As I said originally, for throw away video reuse away!

[gwoiler]

Any DVD I author also has a DVD burned with the files necessary to author it and there is a master DV tape too. I must admit, that I have not made a VHS in 8 months and I am starting to wonder if I should keep a tape backup of all projects. If it is important... then yes... I guess, but if it is important, I have all the original camera tapes and project files so it is easily reproduced at a later date. VHS was easy although it did not hold the original quality. I wish DVD was as easy and now with BluRay coming... how long will it be before a completely new format is here and DVD gets shelved. Both of the above posts are right.


glenn