TV screen that supports PAL via HDMI

[VideoPlayout11]

Is there any TV screen from either, Samsung, Panasonic etc, that supports PAL via HDMI with it looks terrible (e.g screen shaking, looking fuzzy, lack of motion). I know I should stick to HD when using HDMI, but I need this solution urgently, as I am broadcasting at PAL standers via HDMI. So any TV screens/monitors that supports the PAL scheme via HDMI (using a black magic UltraStudio mini monitor)?
Thank you.

[hech54]

I live in the PAL region Australia. And need to output content in PAL via HDMI. (I don't need it for watching broadcast TV).

What else do you expect to find while living in Oz?

[sanlyn]

Isn't PAL the video standard in Australia? Aren't there PAL video players and TV's that use HDMI in Australia? HDMI can carry both SD and HD video. PAL video players for SD and HD have been produced for many years. Perhaps you have a different problem you haven't described.

[VideoPlayout11]

I have only being using Samsung Television(s) and the result on (720 by 576i) does not look the best. The result looks better on cheap 22" CONIA via HDMI.

[smrpix]

Large TVs reveal the flaws that small TVs mask.

[sanlyn]

720x576i is not HD. Playing it via HDMI won't make it so. It will still be standard definition.

I don't know what "looks better" means.

[johns0]

If the video has good quality with high enough bitrate it will look better through the hdmi,if it's crappy to begin with then it will look worse.

[VideoPlayout11]

720x576i is not HD. Playing it via HDMI won't make it so. It will still be standard definition.

I don't know what "looks better" means.

When outputting to one of the Samsung Televisions, the picture seems to "shake" and the motion "drops" a-little. I am not sure whether the HDMI is scaling to high for SD content with larger screens. Or Samsung is not appropriate for SD via HDMI.

[sanlyn]

That does seem odd. Even Samsung was making SD players with HDMI output for many years that worked well with their own HDTV's. Today's BR players also play SD via HDMI. So something is amiss.

[VideoPlayout11]

That does seem odd. Even Samsung was making SD players with HDMI output for many years that worked well with their own HDTV's. Today's BR players also play SD via HDMI. So something is amiss.

I am using a Black Magic Design UltraStudio mini monitor to output via HDMI and its set to PAL. Are there any plasmas around 22" that suit PAL via HDMI? It does seem very odd to me, that both Samsung Televisions do this.

[usually_quiet]

That does seem odd. Even Samsung was making SD players with HDMI output for many years that worked well with their own HDTV's. Today's BR players also play SD via HDMI. So something is amiss.

I am using a Black Magic Design UltraStudio mini monitor to output via HDMI and its set to PAL. Are there any plasmas around 22" that suit PAL via HDMI? It does seem very odd to me, that both Samsung Televisions do this.

There are no plasma TVs smaller than 40 inches made today. The smallest plasma TVs I can remember seeing were 32 inches, but that was a few years ago.

Using a different TV is unlikely to solve your problems anyway. What you describe sounds like it could be the result of the field order being reversed, but there are others who have more experience with what that looks like than I do and how to best correct it.

[Edit] I looked at one of your other threads and downloaded AE graphic.mov to watch so I could see what you are describing for myself. It looked nice and steady on my monitor when viewed using VLC and Pot Player, but when I played the file with Media Player Classic Home Cinema, the graphics jumped and shook as you described. Strange. poisondeathray seems to think the video itself is OK. Could it be your player? The video in your .mov file is in ProRes format so I can't do anything more with it. No OS X here.

[VideoPlayout11]

That does seem odd. Even Samsung was making SD players with HDMI output for many years that worked well with their own HDTV's. Today's BR players also play SD via HDMI. So something is amiss.

I am using a Black Magic Design UltraStudio mini monitor to output via HDMI and its set to PAL. Are there any plasmas around 22" that suit PAL via HDMI? It does seem very odd to me, that both Samsung Televisions do this.

There are no plasma TVs smaller than 40 inches made today. The smallest plasma TVs I can remember seeing were 32 inches, but that was a few years ago.

Using a different TV is unlikely to solve your problems anyway. What you describe sounds like it could be the result of the field order being reversed, but there are others who have more experience with what that looks like than I do and how to best correct it.

[Edit] I looked at one of your other threads and downloaded AE graphic.mov to watch so I could see what you are describing for myself. It looked nice and steady on my monitor when viewed using VLC and Pot Player, but when I played the file with Media Player Classic Home Cinema, the graphics jumped and shook as you described. Strange. poisondeathray seems to think the video itself is OK. Could it be your player? The video in your .mov file is in ProRes format so I can't do anything more with it. No OS X here.

It couldn't be my player as I am using a Video Play-out software. What are my options?

[usually_quiet]

That does seem odd. Even Samsung was making SD players with HDMI output for many years that worked well with their own HDTV's. Today's BR players also play SD via HDMI. So something is amiss.

I am using a Black Magic Design UltraStudio mini monitor to output via HDMI and its set to PAL. Are there any plasmas around 22" that suit PAL via HDMI? It does seem very odd to me, that both Samsung Televisions do this.

There are no plasma TVs smaller than 40 inches made today. The smallest plasma TVs I can remember seeing were 32 inches, but that was a few years ago.

Using a different TV is unlikely to solve your problems anyway. What you describe sounds like it could be the result of the field order being reversed, but there are others who have more experience with what that looks like than I do and how to best correct it.

[Edit] I looked at one of your other threads and downloaded AE graphic.mov to watch so I could see what you are describing for myself. It looked nice and steady on my monitor when viewed using VLC and Pot Player, but when I played the file with Media Player Classic Home Cinema, the graphics jumped and shook as you described. Strange. poisondeathray seems to think the video itself is OK. Could it be your player? The video in your .mov file is in ProRes format so I can't do anything more with it. No OS X here.

It couldn't be my player as I am using a Video Play-out software. What are my options?

Obviously you are not getting the help you need here. Some of our members are professionals, but most of us (including myself) are hobbyists, and use Windows rather than OS X. Maybe you can get help from the makers of your professional-level hardware and software.

[jagabo]

the picture seems to "shake"

That sounds like a field order reversal, or the video being deinterlaced to 25 fps. Does it look something like the middle row in 24v30v60.avi in the following post:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926

[VideoPlayout11]

I am not entirely sure. I have a feeling Samsung TV's don't support PAL via HDMI even if the TV is capable of doing so. The video screen seems to "stutter" almost the effect of a VRC tape. I mean, 576i is not that bad. The video is not interlaced, running at 25fps. But, the video seems to play smooth when outputting at 1080i. So, it brings me back the thought that, Samsung don't work with PAL content via HDMI (even if the TV identifies 576i).

I had a look at these televisions, all say (except Samsung) that they specifically support PAL content via HDMI. Have a look: http://www.220-electronics.com/multi-system-tv/multisystem-lcd-television/toshiba-24hv...em-lcd-tv.html


Read the specifications.


(I got an email from Samsung saying they do not support PAL formats of that kind. Only 1080i50)

[usually_quiet]

(I got an email from Samsung saying they do not support PAL formats of that kind. Only 1080i50)

If that is what the email says, it was written by a moron. Strictly speaking, PAL is analog so of course HDMI does not support it. You (and most others here) are guilty of writing "PAL" when they should write "576i", but the notion that no Samsung TV sold in PAL countries can correctly process 576i video received via HDMI is just plain ridiculous. There are probably VideoHelp members watching this thread who have a DVD recorder with HDMI out and a Samsung TV who can test and debunk that theory for you.

[VideoPlayout11]

but the notion that no Samsung TV sold in PAL countries can correctly process 576i video received via HDMI is just plain ridiculous.

I am only saying this because both Samsung TV's seem to "struggle" with 576i as a final output from a HDMI cable from a BlackMagic Design Mini Monitor, not a DVD recorder. It also may happen with others. I just need a solution and maybe one of the Televisions that I linked might be of benefit.

[hech54]

I am only saying this because both Samsung TV's seem to "struggle" with 576i as a final output from a HDMI cable from a BlackMagic Design Mini Monitor, not a DVD recorder. It also may happen with others. I just need a solution and maybe one of the Televisions that I linked might be of benefit.

Saying it over and over again does not change anything.
I have a Medion MD81335 DVD recorder(with HDD) with HDMI out that I occasionally run to both a Philips and an LG TV/Monitor(via HDMI) with absolutely ZERO problems.
Your obsession with Samsung and lack of information concerning anything that happens BEFORE the signal hits the Samsung isn't going to be overcome by repeating the same thing over and over again.

[VideoPlayout11]

What LG television are you using? I am willing to purchase a TV/monitor, just to be able to output 720 by 576i via HDMI.

[jagabo]

the notion that no Samsung TV sold in PAL countries can correctly process 576i video received via HDMI is just plain ridiculous.

Maybe not. My North American Samsung HDTV will happily display HDMI at 480p60, 720p60, 1080i30, and 1080p60 (YUV and RGB), and many computer resolutions like 1024x768p60, but it doesn't support 480i via HMDI. It will display 480i via the composite or s-video inputs. I don't remember if it suports 480i via component.

[usually_quiet]

the notion that no Samsung TV sold in PAL countries can correctly process 576i video received via HDMI is just plain ridiculous.

Maybe not. My North American Samsung HDTV will happily display HDMI at 480p60, 720p60, 1080i30, and 1080p60 (YUV and RGB), and many computer resolutions like 1024x768p60, but it doesn't support 480i via HMDI. It will display 480i via the composite or s-video inputs. I don't remember if it suports 480i via component.

I guess I was wrong. It is looking more likely that most TVs won't support 480i or 576i content over HDMI. Why would they if none of the devices they are normally connected to can supply it? I took a look at my DVD recorder with HDMI out plus some downloaded manuals that I have for DVD players and Blu-Ray players, and none of the devices can output 480i via HDMI. 480p is the lowest resolution they support for that connection.

[Edit]The HDMI article at Wikipedia says the following:

An HDMI connection can either be single-link (type A/C) or dual-link (type B) and can have a video pixel rate of 25 MHz to 340 MHz (for a single-link connection) or 25 MHz to 680 MHz (for a dual-link connection). Video formats with rates below 25 MHz (e.g., 13.5 MHz for 480i/NTSC) are transmitted using a pixel-repetition scheme.

If that is true, the picture information is transmitted differently for SD interlaced content than for the more common HDMI resolutions.

The specs for this Toshiba TV http://www.220-electronics.com/multi-system-tv/multisystem-lcd-television/toshiba-24hv...em-lcd-tv.html do say 576i is supported via HDMI.

[VideoPlayout11]

I just sent a message to the company selling the 'Multi-System' Televisions company and they said the following:

"Maybe the Samsung tv you own does not support Native pal so even though it
is capable of handling the resolution it may be converting it which is
causing the stuttering.

If you tv is native pal then you have me stumped because ours will probably
do the same thing."

I hope he/she wasn't referring to all there TVs

[usually_quiet]

I just sent a message to the company selling the 'Multi-System' Televisions company and they said the following:

"Maybe the Samsung tv you own does not support Native pal so even though it
is capable of handling the resolution it may be converting it which is
causing the stuttering.

If you tv is native pal then you have me stumped because ours will probably
do the same thing."

I hope he/she wasn't referring to all there TVs

Most likely they were. Their TVs are sourced from PAL countries. Look at the tuner specs for TVs that 220 electronics sells. If there is digital tuner installed in a TV that 220 electronics sells, it tunes DVB-T. None include an ATSC or ISDB-T tuner. The analog tuner will be either PAL or PAL/SECAM/NTSC.