Backup raw AVCHD to blu-ray discs?

[sdsumike619]

64GB memory cards are pricey. So, can I back up raw footage (not talking about authoring) to Blu-Ray discs? An hour of AVCHD is about 11GB so on a dual layer blu-ray disc, I can fit 4+hours. But I've yet to even own a blu-ray burner. Are they reliable? How long does it take to burn a blu-ray disc? I'm uneasy about backing up to hard drives (knocked one over once, plugged another one in after a few months and it didn't work, etc)

[Perry Tanko]

I would be interested in the answer to this too...

tc, have you considered backing up using an encrypted .RAR file using various cloud services? I few to consider would be Dropbox.com, Box, FileFactory, Filedropper, Hyperfile, Depositfiles, etc.

[sdsumike619]

No, I wouldn't consider cloud services for backing up such a massive amount of data. I found a thread on another forum:http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/general-hd-720-1080-acquisition/485289-avchd-footage-data-...ternal-hd.html
Seems several people use tape backups which I know nothing about, so time to start researching..

[Kerry56]

Internal hard drives are fairly reliable, and most would advise you to use them. I backup data to hard drives and optical discs.

You can certainly burn video to an optical disc as data, it doesn't have to be authored to blu ray. That isn't a problem. I'd suggest buying a Pioneer brand blu ray burner, as they have the best rep on burning quality. The 208 or the 2208 (retail version) are the current models.

Use ImgBurn to burn blu ray, and burn at a moderate speed. If your discs are rated at 4x, don't go above that speed.

The main concern when burning blu ray discs is to get good quality media. The best are Panasonic, but are hard to find in the US. Others that have proven to be reliable are FTI Falcon and Verbatim (don't use Verbatim LTH discs).

Falcon FTI sold under the SmartBlu brand: http://www.mediamegamall.com/smartblu-bluray-disc-25gb-silver-lacquer-print-25pk-cakeb...5-p-27685.html

Verbatim: http://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-97457-Blu-ray-Recordable-25-Disc/dp/B00471HK0Q/ref=sr_1...batim+25gb+bdr

[_Al_]

I thing being careful as Kerry56 says and it is a way to back up nevertheless it is also a waste of time and also accessibility of that back up is bad. Discs will be sitting in some shelf not ready for streaming or searching (for clip).

Yust start archiving so you get some 3T HDD, or even 2T ($100), and one extra for back up ($200 together) . In 5 years those 25Mbit streams would be accessible with tablets or even smartphones without stuttering. Today 25Mbit seems to be just yet too much for best tablets through wi-fi. Check those processors there are inside there. Or there will be transcoding NASes more common (even now maybe already check for example latest NAS DS214 play model, sure not cheap)
So you will appreciate all video is all together somewhere already. Sorted out. If you do not sort it out gradually in time you will never do.

So for backing up on optical discs the only plus side is is price, some savings for the moment but mines is that you will move those data from disc to some storage later anyway spending some time to sort it out, or having it available at ones, all you data, ready for transferring, uploading, moving

[sdsumike619]

My biggest concern is the raw footage. For example, if an NLE project file becomes corrupt, it can always be re-created (with work of course) as long as the raw footage is available. If the raw footage is lost, then nothing matters. So, my thinking was to burn a blu-ray disc each time a memory card fills up. Well, not quite full since the card is 64GB and BD capacity is 50GB but you get the idea...

[_Al_]

Yes that is what I meant too, that streaming thing is just stuff you can use,

what you could do is dump SD card immediately to one hardisk, those clips, creating folders with names in date format, feeding NLE from that hardisk and you should have at least one extra where you mirror first hardisk. You have that other hardisk unplugged somewhere in safe place, updating it from time to time (always before you delete SD card). By working with both of them you will also track if those hardiscks are still working. If one of them is down, or making suspicious sounds out of ordinary, immediately back it up on another one. I'd recommend even third storage away from your house anyway. ... How do you want to monitor BD's all the time?

It always comes down to price. You need $200 for two 2T hardisks. Or you save money, burn those on BD disc, with all that discomfort not having data at one place together, but anyway you have only one copy stored then burning one BD, not enough, at least I'd be afraid to have only one back up.

[Kerry56]

Never store important data in one place. Which is why I backup to both hard drives and optical discs.

[sdsumike619]

I trust the optical media more than I do a mechanical hard drive with moving parts. I'm selling DVDs that were burned years ago that work just fine. If I drop an optical media disc, I have much better faith that it will work than if I drop or somehow otherwise a hard drive falls off a shelf, etc.

[redwudz]

I back up all my MKVs to Blu-ray discs. Specifically Verbatim single layer 25GB. That's no different than a data disc as they aren't in the BD format.
I think my Pioneer BD burners burn a disc in about 15 - 20 minutes, haven't really noticed. And BD backup is cheaper than using dual layer DVDs per megabyte of storage.


I've done over a hundred burns with no coasters. I have a Pioneer 208 and a 203 that I've had about two years. No problems. I only use ImgBurn.


During that same period, I've had three hard drives die on me, losing most all the data. So I would definitely recommend BD over HDD storage for archival purposes.


I do have an older tape backup drive, a HP Ultrium 1. Takes forever to back up much and it's linear, so no searching. It hold 100 or 200GB per tape, depending on the settings.
I'm sure there are better and faster tape drives out there these days, but BD works well enough.

[sdsumike619]

Redwudz, thanks for your reply too. To clarify, you're backing up only your original footage to the BD's correct? I suppose if the project is small enough, you can back up the whole project though. But your response just reinforces what I said about hard drives failing.

[redwudz]

For my purposes, I convert my commercial BDs to MKV and put them on a video server for easy playback. But after losing a server HDD with quite a few MKVs, I now convert, then back up the MKV to 25GB BDs. But you can put any kind of data on a BD, same as a DVD.


I haven't used dual layer BDs because of the price. But I assume they will work OK also.


For storing very large video files, not a lot of options. I would look into some of the newer tape drives and talk to some people that use them for large files/archiving.
It looks to be a few years away for optical drives that can economically back up 100GB or more on a disc.


Another alternative is a RAID 5 or RAID 10 HDD or similar system with large drives. Not foolproof, but easy to use and as long as only one drive (Or maybe 2) dies at a time, you still have the files. I'm not knowledgeable about newer RAID versions. But they may be worth looking into.

[_Al_]

hardrives have to be backed up, otherwise this will happen

home videos do not take much space, even 2T for RAW footage is overkill for first 2-3 years

for home video and one drive and its back up has RAID no real value, because hardisks has to be stored separately, one possibly not plugged , certainly not in the same outlet etc...

Anything above RAID1 for two and more bay NAS unit or closures is just convenience that comes at the price of paying double in case one HDD fails but it is NOT a back up because in case of power surge everything is fried.

After this op definitively goes for BD's to back it up, it is everyone's personal choice, convenience, he has BD already, burner, experience, his choice, other has no burner, experience, just managing HDD's , knowing how to handle those ...

[sdsumike619]

In the specs on newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827129072

It says:

World's first 15x burner.
Secure your data: 128 GB on BD-R QL media, 100 GB on BD-R TL media

Does this mean that I can burn 128GB blu-ray discs on that sub $100 burner? I thought the max was 50GB?
Based on the # of reviews, it looks like they've sold a lot more of the LG brand blu-ray burners.

[usually_quiet]

Any BD media other than BD-R is very pricey. The higher the capacity, the more ridiculous the price. I have been burning Verbatim BD-R media (not LTH) myself, and have had no coasters, but supposedly it is not archival quality. Panasonic BD-R media fared best in French trials that tested the stability of BD-R discs.

[redwudz]

The new BD TL (Three layer - 100GB) and BD QL (Four layer - 128GB) discs need special burners and players that can handle the format. The QL discs are apparently still in development. The TL discs are very hard to find in the US, but in the UK they seem to be about $55US each. Pioneer seems to be the developer of the format and has licensed it to several disc companies, including TDK and Verbatim.


The Pioneer burner could be a good choice as it can also burn the regular BD formats and assuming BD TL and QL media becomes available and for a reasonable price, you would be somewhat 'future proofed'.


Some more info about one of the Pioneer burners and TL discs: http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Reviews/Specific.aspx?ArticleId=33628&PageId=36

[sdsumike619]

Thank you for the additional information. Again, my main goal with the BD's are to have another place to save my raw video recordings, in addition to a mechanical hard drive.