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  1. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    Okay ... I was suggested to start a new thread so here goes

    Here is my original post ...

    You have a HTPC ... I've got a question ... you do have a digital tuner card ... I would think at least.

    I put a HTPC in the living room over a month ago ... worked great recording OTA stuff. But little by little the shows were pixelatted to the max and my wife's ... Young and the Restless ... was not very watchable.

    I redid the coax cables and splitters and thought I did the best I could without any cash to buy more equipment ... "MORE" antenna amplifiers ... being on the top of the list.

    I'm using Panasonic DVD Recorders with Digital Tuners in the living room and my bedroom to record the TV Shows we like to watch and I am having ... no problem ... recording the shows with them.

    I'm now having problems with a ... "weak TV Signal" message on my WIN 7 PC in my garage ... which is my main PC.

    The tuners are the ATI 650 ATSC cards.

    I went to this website ... http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/besthdtvtuner.html and noticed the ATI tuner cards are not on the top of the list.

    If Baldrick wants to move this ... questionaire ... to a new thread ... go for it.

    I really could use some answers.

    Here are the replies ...

    Usually Quiet >> In my somewhat limited experience, TV tuner cards typically need a stronger signal than the digital tuners in newer consumer electronics. However, if the weather is good and nothing has changed, but you have gone from having a nice clear picture to one that breaks up, it could be a sign that the tuner is failing. That is what happened with my 30-day old AVerMedia TV tuner card that I eventually RMAed. (AVerMedia sent me a new one, and so far so good.) An ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI-e card it replaced, started to fail detection by the system at odd intervals before going belly up. While my AVerMedia tuner wasn't available, I found an ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI card for a good price on ebay and used that in the interim.

    Comparing the two, the AVerMedia Duet (white box version) has the better tuner (actually 2 of them sharing one coax connection) but no analog capabilities. I do have to amplify the signal from my indoor antenna with a 20dB amplifier to get all the channels that my converter boxes can tune without one.

    edDV >>> Your problem is reception not hard disk price. I suggest a new thread with more details starting with location and the antenna you are using.

    Dragonkeeper >> I'm actually using a USB 650 and i live in a fringe area and am ablae to get all channels over 40+ miles away. I would suggest at a minimum a attic mount antenna, an antenna with a good gain* and using a signal amplifier, by doing so i was able to double the number of channels i can pick up, also rainy and cloudy days are much less of a nuisance to reception.

    *I am actaully using a home made antenna its working better than any off the shelf antenna i have tried. And materials cost me less than $20.

    Lacywest now adds this on ...

    My antenna is on a pole mounted on my chimney ... its a bowtie type of antenna. It's 1:30 AM and I can't take a picture of it at this time ... but I will but here is a picture of sort of what it looks like ...

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    When I post the actual picture it will be quite different. I do want to say I added extra insulation where the plastic was placed between the elements. The section where the electrical connectors made contact ... I made a solid connection and then wrapped black tape all around that area.

    Going back to the 80s ... I've seen what the Wind ... Sun ... weather ... can do to antenna wire and back then it was 300 OHM twin lead. And so I beefed up everything in the area of the antenna ... on my patio cement floor and then hoisted it up and mounted it.

    Twice a year we have to pay property taxes ... $600 twice a year ... yes I know ... other folks pay more than that. And we let the Directv go unpaid ... to pay the property taxes.

    Anyways ... cable comes down from antenna ... goes to a Motorola Signal Booster 484095-001-00 Amplifier



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    And then to a splitter ... one cable goes to the living room setup and another cable goes up into the attic where another Motorola Amplifier is connected ... and then goes to another splitter ... which one cable goes to my bedroom setup and another cable to my PC in the bedroom.

    Now here is something you will laugh about ... the PC in the living room ... AMD 5000 Black Edition ... 2 GBs of DDR2 ram. I used a Maxtor 250 GB PATA Drive bought in 2006 ... not really used much for my archive drive. When I put the PC together I stared at the PATA cable and thought to myself ... hmmm ... this dont look right.

    Well ... last week I took the PC back to the workbench in my garage to work on it. One reason was because the Maxtor drive disappeared and nothing was getting recorded ... I rebooted and it was back again. Since it was behaving in a unreliable way I took a closer look at things ... the PATA cable :- ( ... it wasn't a 80 PIN. Geez ... how did I miss that the first time.

    I'm rebuilding the PC with a mobo that has a PCI-E slot above the video card and I will put in a ATI 650 PCI-E card there. It seems some of the first ATI 650 PCI cards had a glitch in them and needed to be factory fixed ... the PCI card that was in there had some re-wiring done with what looks like hot glue covering the wires that were attached.

    As you can see ... I had a lot of variables making things hard to diagnose.

    But to make things more difficult ... I'm having problems with the Media Center in WIN 7 on this PC ... saying "weak TV Signal" and this wasn't happening before.

    As for speed ... I use the game ... Crysis ... if the PC can play it with Medium settings ... the PC is fast. And I have Crysis 2 installed on my PC and I've already finished it ... hardware is >>> AMD 2.8 GHZ - 4 GBs of DDR2 RAM - Nvidia 9500GT.

    It just started about a week ago ... getting the ... weak signal ... message on my PC ... is this perhaps related to cold temperatures in our area. I live between ... Fresno and Bakersfield ... we just started ... last week getting FROST warnings for the Orange Tree farmers. I dug up my Bell Peppers and Banana Peppers and put them in pots and bring them in at night.

    I think my best bet would be to get some more signal amplifiers ... 2 more at least ... and then see how things go.

    A few folks had a thread going ... months ago ... about using DVD-RAM disks to record with ... I've got over 20 of them and my wife and I ... we love them disks ... record our shows and watch the show at the same time. But I really want to figure out how to get my PCs to record TV Shows ... in a reliable way.

    I've been wondering if I need to change to another tuner based on this page >> http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/besthdtvtuner.html

    oh just to mention ... I've had my DSL connection since 2003 at least ... it was first ... Pacbell and then SBC and now it's AT&T ... AT&T sent me an email ... they were doing away with the free webpage service ... and that is where the picture was at for my signature down below ... so I guess I need to change my signature ... since I no longer have a Hexen Picture to show off
    Last edited by lacywest; 11th Dec 2011 at 05:28. Reason: added more text
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  2. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    Okay ... here are two views of my antenna ... as you can see ... I dont have any obstructions ... to the North East.

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  3. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lacywest View Post
    Okay ...

    Anyways ... cable comes down from antenna ... goes to a Motorola Signal Booster 484095-001-00 Amplifier

    Image
    [Attachment 10050 - Click to enlarge]

    And then to a splitter ... one cable goes to the living room setup and another cable goes up into the attic where another Motorola Amplifier is connected ... and then goes to another splitter ... which one cable goes to my bedroom setup and another cable to my PC in the bedroom...
    OK my first take is back to signal quality at the antenna. The antenna must be pointed to the transmitting antennas and the antenna itself needs to provide adequate directive gain. Explain your proximity to the transmitters using the TVFool tools.

    Second, in fringe areas with little multi-path issues, a pre-amp might help. What you are using is not a pre-amp. The pre-amp sits up on the pole at the antenna to boost signal to noise before more noise is added in the coax coming down and the rest of the distribution system.

    This is a typical antenna pre-amp
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    http://www.google.com/#q=TV+antenna+pre-amp&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=...w=1020&bih=851

    The model used depends on your local need for VHF/UHF or just UHF reception.

    The mast mount pre-amp can increase signal to noise. Distribution amps later in the path just compensate for gain losses from splitters. They don't improve signal to noise they boost signal and noise equally and may add noise themselves and/or favor some channel frequencies over others. They are only needed if the tuner lacks adequate input gain.

    Usually signal loss only happens for some weaker channels. Are you saying all channels are lost?

    So give us the reception plot and list here. No need to expose your street address.
    http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

    What antenna are you using? This is crucial.
    Last edited by edDV; 11th Dec 2011 at 23:51.
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  4. Member lacywest's Avatar
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    The antenna has been up since at least 2006 and HDTV Digital was not in my card deck yet. I remember when I got my [summer of 2005] Sony 51 inch "HD Ready" TV ... I didn't know what HD was ... the guy at Sears did a terrible job trying to explain what HD was. We left [my wife and I] and went to Circuit TV and got the same TV there. The lady salesperson did a better job of explaining.

    My idea of recording TV signals was based on ATI AIW cards back then.

    Anyways ... The antenna signal going to our Directv HR10-250 has no problem [except for not being able to record to the harddrive inside since Directv has shut off our service ... we still can watch what our antenna can pull in.] Our Panasonic DVRs can pull everything in but the ATI 650 PCI cards are having problems ... including the one in my PC.

    I haven't done a decent diagnostic ... mostly because ... Christmas decorations are being put up ... leaves on our front yard are being raked up and moved to the back yard ... I am going to spread the leaves around the area where we have our garden each summer and give the dirt / soil ... some new life.

    I kind of think I posted this thread before being able to answer the questions being asked.

    I really dont want to take down the antenna ... and redo it. Money wize ... I dont have it for adding a preamp on the mast. If I do it the way of "your" picture ... I would have to take it down and man it was a pain in the butt doing it by myself.

    I find it peculiar that I'm having problems with ... "weak TV signal" on my setup in the garage. This problem was not happening a month ago.

    I think what I will do is get another signal amplifier ... where ? ... I dont know yet .... and connect it just a few feet from the PC I'm currently using ... and also see how it behaves with the PC I will put back in the living room.

    The Directv HR10 250 box in the living room is going bad ... it is displaying that it is running hot and has shut down ... weird ... I never saw that message before ... some of my equipment is old ... I guess.
    Last edited by lacywest; 12th Dec 2011 at 01:30. Reason: added more text
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  5. Member edDV's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lacywest View Post
    ...
    I find it peculiar that I'm having problems with ... "weak TV signal" on my setup in the garage. This problem was not happening a month ago.

    I think what I will do is get another signal amplifier ... where ? ... I dont know yet .... and connect it just a few feet from the PC I'm currently using ... and also see how it behaves with the PC I will put back in the living room.

    The Directv HR10 250 box in the living room is going bad ... it is displaying that it is running hot and has shut down ... weird ... I never saw that message before ... some of my equipment is old ... I guess.
    Are you receiving VHF (7-13) as well as UHF (14-55) channels? Which channels have reception problems?

    If you are getting an acceptable signal at the first point then an active splitter/amp may be adequate to feed the other locations. Explain how many splitters are in the path to the ATI-650? These active splitters assume a good signal entering the house. They won't improve reception, they just control split signal levels.

    2 output http://www.summitsource.com/24-db-hdtv-digital-distribution-amplifier-2output-bidirect...2p-p-8164.html

    4 output http://www.summitsource.com/24-db-hdtv-distribution-amplifier-4output-bidirectional-si...4p-p-7905.html

    8 output http://www.summitsource.com/8-output-signal-distribution-amplifier-multimedia-channel-...8p-p-6901.html

    Try moving the computer with the ATI-650 inside to see if it works at the DVDR recorder location. Also try the DVDR recorder in the garage. The problem may be with that last cable run.
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  6. Member edDV's Avatar
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    The top drawing is my understanding of your existing system. Cascading amps and splitters causes signal falloff due to noise buildup.

    Instead, bring the antenna cable into the attic to a single 4x active splitter. This would use your existing cables and give an equal quality signal to all.

    Click image for larger version

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    http://www.summitsource.com/24-db-hdtv-distribution-amplifier-4output-bidirectional-si...4p-p-7905.html
    Last edited by edDV; 12th Dec 2011 at 10:06.
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