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  1. Hi

    It's been a couple years since I last considered capturing my VHS collection, the last time I couldn't get my head round a solution for me from reading other threads so I got frustrated and gave up. I have decided to give it another go now though.

    Originally I was using my Panasonic DMR-EZ49V to copy VHS to DVD but I ran into copywrite issues and it seemed that capturing to my PC would probably be better anyway so I shelved the project until I worked out how to capture to my PC.

    My player outputs through HDMI so I have looked at HDMI capture cards but they all seem to be gaming based and I'm not sure if they would be suitable or even if HDMI is suitable.

    I guess software is the other thing I'm unsure about, to be fair I'm pretty unsure about all of it I am a total newbie to the whole thing.

    I'm not expecting DVD quality or even improved quality if I could get similar quality to what the DVD combo was doing I would be happy! I have plenty of hard drives so I guess I could store a fairly decent file quality as well.

    Thanks! Apologies if I don't make much sense I don't have a clue what I'm talking about
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  2. Member DVWannaB's Avatar
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    Quite a number of ways you can go here. The short way is to connect your VCR to a DVD recorder with a TBC in between the two. This will defeat the copy protection. If I understand your setup is that your VHS player and DVD recorder are the same unit. Correct? If so, then run the VHS thru TBC to a capture card to computer. There are any number of devices available. I have had overall good experience with the Hauppauge HD PVR 1212 unit. It can be finicky as hell at times on WIN rigs. On the MAC using HDPVRCapture was a breeze. So I think the SW on the MAC is better than that on WIN using Total Media Extreme or WINTV8. Just know that the HD PVR 1212 only does H264 no MPEG. If you dont want to do any conversion for DVD burning, then use a MPEG capture device. AVS2DVD is a nice tool if you want to convert H264 caps to DVD. It is automated and easy to use and very fast conversion.

    Personally, I wouldnt go tht HDMI route as it too doesnt provide any relief for copy protection. SVideo or composite should be enough to provide the quality of the VHS tape.
    Last edited by DVWannaB; 13th Jan 2017 at 11:54.
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  3. Thanks

    Yes my unit is a VHS/DVD recorder combo, I have just googled what a TBC is and they seem VERY expensive I'm not sure I can outlay £400 as well as buying a decent capture card as well! Unless there is more reasonable priced TBC's available.

    My aim is to capture in the best quality file type I can without really crazy file sizes, I don't know much about video files but with my music I have everything in a lossless file type then convert to lossy if need be but keep the lossless files on a HDD for the future.

    My VHS unit seems to output HDMI, Composite and scart. I can see s video input but no output.

    I'm not sure why but I was under the impression my PC wouldn't care about copywrite on the VHS via HDMI and just capture away as if nothing had happened I guess I am wrong in that assumption then!
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  4. Once you start dealing with protected tapes, the PC becomes a free-for-all, with people swearing this or that capture device will let you digitize protected tapes without any other accessories. That claim is more urban myth than reality: true for some people, not for others. If you don't want to waste time guessing, the first thing you need to do is buy a video filter box made specifically to solve this problem (when connected between ANY vcr and ANY capture device). The filter most commonly and easily available worldwide is called The Grex, sold thru Amazon.uk or the mfrs own website.

    You can then dub your protected tapes directly to your EZ49V by getting another external VCR, connecting that to The Grex, and the Grex to the line inputs of your EZ49V. (You should be able to buy decent second hand VCRs in UK for not much money that are at least equal to the VCR built into the EZ49V).

    Dubbing those tapes to your PC instead of DVD would require you buy an encoder card or USB video dongle. You would then connect the outputs of your EZ49v VCR to The Grex, and The Grex to the PC device. You won't need a second VCR to dub to the PC unless you encounter the dreaded "dropped frame" issue, where sound drifts out of sync with the video. Some PC video accessories drop frames with VHS, some don't, and it also depends on the PC and/or OS, so its hard to make recommendations. You'll know right away if your system has this problem: if so, you will need to get a second VCR. The setup in that case would be play the tape on the second VCR, connected to The Grex, connected to your EZ49v, connected to your PC video device. Passing the signal thru your EZ49v should eliminate the dropped frames issue, because the EZ49v line in/line out circuit repairs it. In such an arrangement, your EZ49v acts as an external TBC for your PC, making sure no frames get dropped (The Grex may or may not help with dropped frames: its primary function is filter the protection out, something the EZ49v cannot do on its own, so you need both hooked up between a second VCR and your PC).
    Last edited by orsetto; 12th Jan 2017 at 20:12.
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  5. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Orsetto has much more faith in the Grex than I do. Iiwy, I'd bite the bullet and find somehow a TRUE Full-frame TBC. It is the only thing that is guaranteed to remove Macrovision, as that is a direct byproduct of its process of stripping and then generating new blanking.
    Plus you will have the added benefit of rock-steady sync (iow no frame dropping).

    Scott
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  6. Dinosaur Supervisor KarMa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Once you start dealing with protected tapes, the PC becomes a free-for-all, with people swearing this or that capture device will let you digitize protected tapes without any other accessories. That claim is more urban myth than reality: true for some people, not for others.
    My Hauppauge 1250 does not care about the vertical blanking style of Macrovision, with the pulsing white bars in the upper unseen part of the analog signal. As far as the ColorStripe style of Macrovision I have no idea and don't even know what it looks like.
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  7. Problem is, affordable full-frame TBCs that aren't absolute crap have joined the ranks of "unobtainium" at this point, so recommending The Grex as a protection filter device isn't so much a matter of faith as necessity. It is what it is: I have never heard anyone report it failing at its design target of removing the usual assortment of protection schemes. At $90, it has a far better reliability record than the garbage $300 AVT-8710 TBC knockoffs available in UK. And it beats the pants off all the decades-old I.DEN, For.A, Panasonic, etc, TBCs one sees on eBay. For the truly frugal, VHS protection is filtered quite nicely by one of the olde generic cigarette-pack-sized, 9v-battery-powered black boxes that proliferated in the VHS era. They can be hunted down for approx $25, but are not as quick and simple to find as a Grex. I have a few of those left over from the 90s, so I don't need a Grex, but if I didn't have them a Grex is where I'd turn first (or one of its knockoffs).

    For dropped frames. lozii already has a Panasonic dvd recorder that should fix that in pass-thru mode downstream from any protection filter, unless he picks up some godforsaken circa-2003 PCI card that sh*ts itself if it detects a VHS tape within 50 feet. If the tapes or encoder device are THAT tragic, the entire project needs to be reconsidered for practicality and cost-effectiveness. Either replace the tapes straight-up with commercial disc releases, or save your lunch money for a year and buy a reasonably-current pro TBC like a Hotronic AP-41. A used one averages $400 or so, but is much more likely not to disappoint than the pathetic recent iterations of consumer AVT, CVT, TV1, CBT, CTB, etc, plastic TBCs. Someone doing meticulous archival restoration of VHS will buy a TBC like a Hotronic by default, no question, but the casual user trying to back up a few tapes may not be able to justify the outlay (compared to a filter + pre-existing dvd recorder for passthru). Of course, if you don't already have a dvd recorder to re-deploy as a pass-thru, a better-grade TBC becomes more attractive: just be sure you get an exchange/return guarantee if you opt for a new, small, chintzy consumer TBC (samples of the AVT and its clones have been known to make dropped frames *worse*, or fail to fully filter protection signals).

    The Hauppauge 1250 reported above is one of several encoder suggestions people throw out as being immune to VHS MV. You can certainly try one, its a valid option, but personally I'd be more comfortable keeping a filter on hand for insurance. I've read too many arguments back and forth from various owners with differing experience of the same encoders.
    Last edited by orsetto; 13th Jan 2017 at 13:50.
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    Perhaps the best solution is a Magewell pro hdmi card it does have hdmi and svideo( also composite and compoment).It does include full tbc will frame synchronizer with 256 Mb ram on board so lost or inserted frames and macro vision is not a problem at least through svideo I think it should have also no problem through hdmi .hdcp through hdmi could be defeated with a hdmi splitter in between player and capture card. IT should cost about 320€ less than a tbc and it's perhaps the better capture card in terms of quality and flexibility for this segment of price.
    See thread https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/376945-Conventional-analog-capture-workflow-vs-alte...ods-comparison from post 56.
    Also the quality of some tbc could be difficult to access and you can easily buy one not working correctly even if new , it happened to me and it costed almost 300€.
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  9. Member DVWannaB's Avatar
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    I also had great success years ago using the Sima GoDVD which allowed me to bypass protection. Tiny little device that gets the job done. Allowed pass-through of SVideo and Composite.
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  10. Member awgie's Avatar
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    I'll be honest, I haven't tried recording VHS tapes in a long time. And I've never tried it with a VCR with HDMI output. So it's possible I'm missing something here. But, here goes...

    If your VCR has HDMI output, it should have built-in time-base-correction, so an external TBC isn't necessarily necessary. It's the HDCP (High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection) - which is built in to any device with HDMI output - you have to deal with.

    Most HDMI splitters - such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004F9LVXC (£21) - will emulate a HDCP display, something that is necessary for gamers to capture the game play output from their PS3 consoles.
    Then all you need is a suitable capture device - such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00VM4J4Y6 (£57) - to record the output from the player.

    So for less than £80 you should be able to capture your videos directly to an external hard drive. You don't even need to involve your PC in the process at all.
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  11. Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    So for less than £80 you should be able to capture your videos directly to an external hard drive. You don't even need to involve your PC in the process at all.
    You know, I'm tempted to try something like the AverMedia ER310, which could also serve double duty as a PVR. Anything standalone that would speed up the workflow and skip the PC being involved would be a great help (similar to a dvd recorder but capping direct to files instead). Many of my three thousand VHS aren't that important to me: at this point I'm digitizing them solely out of respect for the money and time I wasted in my youth recording them in the first place.

    The three potential roadblocks would be A) the scarcity and expense of VHS decks with HDMI (perhaps limited to the Panasonic combo recorders, if one wants their TBC capability, most other brands of combo recorder and combo player seem to have issues or restrictions with VHS over HDMI). Then B) would be FLP437's research into VHS HDMI capture, which indicated some hiccups and degradation with cheap HDMI capture boxes. Finally C) might be how HDMI capture deals with MV protection.

    When I get the chance, I'm going to look into this method: I'd be satisfied with mediocre results if it speeds up the transfer of a few hundred third-tier tapes that I'm unlikely to ever watch again more than once. After transferring some 1600 VHS so far, I'm under no illusions about quality: most of it was recorded off-air or cable in the '80s- early '90s. It wasn't pretty then, nothings gonna make it pretty now. All I want is a digital archive of it all so I can finally toss the space-hogging tapes: most of my remaining undigitized tapes fall under the category of "hard to find stuff, but not all that interesting to me anymore".
    Last edited by orsetto; 14th Jan 2017 at 14:39.
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  12. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by orsetto View Post
    Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    So for less than £80 you should be able to capture your videos directly to an external hard drive. You don't even need to involve your PC in the process at all.
    The three potential roadblocks would be A) the scarcity and expense of VHS decks with HDMI (perhaps limited to the Panasonic combo recorders, if one wants their TBC capability, most other brands of combo recorder and combo player seem to have issues or restrictions with VHS over HDMI). Then B) would be FLP437's research into VHS HDMI capture, which indicated some hiccups and degradation with cheap HDMI capture boxes. Finally C) might be how HDMI capture deals with MV protection.
    Yes, decks with HDMI (or component video, which that capture device is also compatible with) are a bit more expensive than basic VCRs with only composite video out. But I think that's because all the ones I've seen are VHS/DVD combo units, so naturally they're going to cost more. As for time base correction, it's really not as critical for copying VHS to digital as it is for say, matching up two different tapes and eliminating jittering between the two, like we had to do back in my old days of TV studio work in the '80s. I've recorded VHS onto my old PC using just a USB dongle, and didn't need an additional TBC unit. (I had to scrap that USB device however, because it wouldn't work with Windows 7 or newer.)

    Another option would be to use just a basic VCR, and use a composite video -> HDMI converter box (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HZBH2XO).

    As I said, I have not actually tried to record from VHS to that capture device. I don't have a VCR that would connect to it. I have however recorded a clip about a minute long from my BluRay player just to make sure the splitter was correctly removing the HDCP signal, and it came out looking very good with a high bit rate.

    And as for MV protection... I have no idea how that would come through on HDMI. I don't know if the splitter would remove that as well, since MV is a completely different animal from HDCP. All you could do is try. You could also get a "video stabilizer" for about $50 that would eliminate the MV signal. (Some people erroneously call this little black box a TBC, but it actually has nothing to do with time base correction. Its only purpose is to eliminate the MV signal because MV would often mess up the picture when it wasn't supposed to.)
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    i have not touched VHS in years, and all vhs tapes are gone

    but regarding, HDMI, i bought the HDMl ClonerBox thru amazon, and have not found anything it won't 'record'
    i have used it with output from PC, Blu-ray, and even my homeworx PVR hdmi output (testing)

    it captures ? records, directly to USB storage in h264 in mp4 file
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    The HDML Cloner Boxes and the AGPtek® HD Game Capture are terrible recommendations if someone needs interlaced SD video. The HDML Cloner Boxes de-interlace all captures. In addition, if one is capturing 1080i30 or 1080i25, they only capture 1080p30 or 1080p25 instead of 1080p60 or 1080p50, which means every other interlaced field was discarded instead of being de-interlaced and captured as a full frame. I think the AGPtek® HD Game Capture can't capture 480i or 576i input. It is supposed to be a re-brand of the EzCap 280.

    For example, VHS should be captured as interlaced for easier authoring to DVD, since DVD video can be encoded as interlaced 25fps (PAL) video or 29.97fps (NTSC). The only time DVD video is encoded as progressive is for 23.975 fps (NTSC), which won't match the output of a VCR. So, in addition to converting from H.264 to MPEG-2, someone using the HDML Cloner Boxes would need to re-interlace its captures for DVD, except perhaps tapes made from a film source, which could be frame decimated back to 24fps instead.

    The AverMedia ER310 would be better if someone wants to create DVDs, since it can record interlaced video as interlaced. Video would still need to be converted to MPEG-2, and audio to AC3, MPEG 1 Level 2, or PCM.
    Last edited by usually_quiet; 15th Jan 2017 at 13:40.
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    I had not thought about the possible frame rate and interlacing discrepancies when using the capture box. So I did a little test - capturing from different sources. Unfortunately, I have no way to tell what the actual output frame rates are.

    From my laptop, set at 1920x1080, it captured as 1080p @ 30fps
    BluRay (playing a DVD) outputs as 1080p, captured as 1080p @ 29.97 fps
    WDTV outputting 1080p, captured as 1080p @ 29.97 fps
    WDTV outputting 1080i, still captured as 1080p @ 29.97 fps
    Tablet outputting 720p, captured as 720p @ 59.94 fps

    So, yes, I concur that it only captures progressive video. For the frame rate, it seems that it captures whatever the output is. I don't have a 480i or 576i source to test it on.

    Yes, the AverMedia ER310 can capture interlaced sources as interlaced, but that also depends on the source device actually outputting interlaced video. And if you have to use an upscaler because your VCR doesn't have HDMI output, you'll probably only get 720p or 1080p output. Even though it's coming from VHS, if the output signal is progressive, it will still need to be re-interlaced if someone wants to make a DVD out of it. So if you have true interlaced output and you need to capture it as interlaced, then the ER310 might be worth the extra $100. However, if you are only archiving old videotapes, it may not make much difference whether it's interlaced anyway.

    At this point it becomes a question of preference. How much money is one prepared to invest in the project? If you're restoring VHS tapes as a business, then it's certainly worth spending more money to get the highest possible quality with whatever technology is available to do so. If you're just converting old episodes of Bugs Bunny that you recorded over-the-air 30 years ago, you have to decide how much of an investment it's really worth to you.

    And what is the ultimate goal? If you want to make DVDs from your old tapes, then an HD capture device probably isn't the way to go at all, since there's a lot of upscaling/downscaling and format conversion going on. It would be better to use a USB device that connects to the VCR output, and use software on the PC that records the source directly as interlaced MPEG2 video, so there is no further conversion needed.
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    I am not aware of any hdmi input capture on pc
    Yes there are devices that have hdmi input but the connection to the pc is internal card slot or external USB input to the pc
    Hdmi on the pc is output only with dnla control possible

    If his VHS has hdmi out? What is the output signal specs 480I , 480p, 720p ?

    Maybe the Cloner box is not suitable for his use, and maybe it will make little difference for vhs being archived on hard drive
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  17. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theewizard View Post
    I am not aware of any hdmi input capture on pc
    Yes there are devices that have hdmi input but the connection to the pc is internal card slot or external USB input to the pc
    Hdmi on the pc is output only with dnla control possible

    If his VHS has hdmi out? What is the output signal specs 480I , 480p, 720p ?

    Maybe the Cloner box is not suitable for his use, and maybe it will make little difference for vhs being archived on hard drive
    I agree. The HDMI port on a laptop is output only.

    I found a few HDMI-to-USB capture devices, but most of them were quite a bit more expensive than the standalone capture device. And the internal HDMI capture cards for desktop PC were even more expensive than that. But most of the devices for PC do have the advantage of being able to record interlaced video. (AVerMedia - the brand mentioned earlier by usually_quiet - makes an internal capture card as well as a USB 3.0 device, in addition to the standalone device he had mentioned. The AVerMedia USB 3.0 device is actually about the same price as the AGPtek standalone device I got.)

    I just looked up the manual for the OP's Panasonic DMR-EZ49V. It states the HDMI output is switchable between 1080p, 1080i, and 720p.

    Bear in mind, however, that none of the capture devices are HDCP-compliant, so even non-copyrighted home videos played through the HDMI output on the VCR would still require the use of an HDMI splitter to be able to capture them.
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    Non compliant ? I thought being compliant meant the device did not ignore the copy protection signal and being non compliant meant it did ignore the copy protection
    Or do you man the signal specs

    I can't speak for the rest of them
    But the Cloner box I have goes between my blue ray or pc and outputs to the tv , it is compliant pass thru? Hdmi signal,
    And ignores copy protection, no splitter needed, the tv play's what is coming to it, it displays just fine
    You watch what you are recording
    One button for power on off
    One button for record on off

    I don't have a blue ray drive for the pc, So this is my only way to backup the few Blu Ray discs I have
    It is not an exact duplicate rip, ( the bit rate is not max bd and if you have the player set to interface then you are going to lose frames, my player is set to 720p, I think I get a better image that way, playing and recording at 720p) but the best I can do right now, as I get a copy of what is being sent to tv from the bd player
    Last edited by theewizard; 16th Jan 2017 at 14:40.
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    Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    I just looked up the manual for the OP's Panasonic DMR-EZ49V. It states the HDMI output is switchable between 1080p, 1080i, and 720p.
    All of which would increase the resolution without improving the quality. ...and the file size for the captures will be larger than for 576i or 576p.
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  20. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by theewizard View Post
    Non compliant ? I thought being compliant meant the device did not ignore the copy protection signal and being non compliant meant it did ignore the copy protection
    That is correct. All devices with HDMI output, that are capable of playing protected content (including DVD/BD players, cable/satellite boxes, and even your PC and game consoles), have to send an HDCP request to the connected display device. To be a compliant display, the device (such as your TV or capture device) has to acknowledge the HDCP request, and return a valid code for a display device. That is what most HDMI splitters do to emulate a display (I ran across a couple splitters that said they were not HDCP compliant). If the output device (such as your BluRay player) doesn't receive a response (i.e. if the request was ignored), or if it receives an invalid code, then it doesn't send the video signal back. Some of them will send a BSOD instead, and some just don't display anything.

    I can't speak for the rest of them
    But the Cloner box I have goes between my blue ray or pc and outputs to the tv , it is compliant pass thru? Hdmi signal,
    And ignores copy protection, no splitter needed, the tv play's what is coming to it, it displays just fine
    You watch what you are recording
    One button for power on off
    One button for record on off
    You got a good one, then. Yes, it is compliant. No, it does not ignore HDCP. It has to acknowledge the HDCP request, or your BluRay player wouldn't show up on your TV. (I suppose that it is possible that the cloner is actually passing the HDCP request on to the TV, and then passing the response back to the player, essentially making itself invisible, but as long as it works I guess it's not terribly important how.)

    All of the capture devices (I did not look specifically for "cloner boxes") that I looked at said in big bold letters that they would not record HDCP content. And sure enough, the one I bought just gave me a blank screen on my TV, and the record button wouldn't engage, when I hooked it up to my BluRay player without the splitter in between them. I didn't actually get it to connect to my BD player, but I didn't have the game console here to test it on, so I figured one HD source was as good as another for my testing purposes.

    And FWIW, copy protection and content protection (HDCP) are two completely different animals. Copy protection is implemented in a variety of ways on the discs themselves, and your player has to decrypt it in order to play the disc at all. It is why you can't simply copy a commercial disc onto your PC and be able to play it - you have to decrypt it first. Copy protection in VHS tapes was different as well, in that it did send a signal embedded in the video output, and televisions would ignore that signal, while recording devices, such as another VCR or a DVD recorder, would see that signal and turn the picture to crap when it was recorded, hence preventing you from copying a commercial VHS tape - or at least preventing you from making a copy that was worth anything.

    Content protection is the whole HDCP crap that prevents you from being able to watch your satellite TV via HDMI on your old dinosaur CRT television without putting something (like a splitter) in the middle to tell the HDCP source that it's connected to a valid display. And just like copy protection, content protection just causes a lot of headaches for people who are just trying to follow the rules. For pirates and bootleggers who purposefully circumvent the system, it doesn't pose much of a problem.

    And that's the last I'm going to say on the subject, as I fear we are treading on thin ice with the forum rules here.
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  21. Thanks for all your replies I know I am quite late replying but I wasn't aware anybody had replied and forgot about it my bad.

    I read through what you have all said the other day and bought some things to try and perform my digitising, a lot of what has been said on this thread has gone over my head to be perfectly honest.

    I have bought an Avermedia Extremecap U3 and an hdmi splitter which is apparently known to strip HDMI protection.


    I have a new question though I might start a new thread if it doesn't get seen here but here goes.

    In the Avermedia software (which is quite good) there are a number of options for quality etc and I'm not sure how to set them for VHS recording, anything I find on google is aimed at game capture.

    There are options for resolution, video bitrate, audio bitrate and framerate and I am not sure how low I should go on the settings for VHS. I noticed somebody on this thread mentions my player can output 1080p and 720p so I'm not sure if I can go lower than that?

    I did a test record at the standard settings at 1080 and the file size was massive! I have plenty of storage space but there is a limit it would be ridiculous if I carried on with these settings.
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  22. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lozii View Post
    There are options for resolution, video bitrate, audio bitrate and framerate and I am not sure how low I should go on the settings for VHS. I noticed somebody on this thread mentions my player can output 1080p and 720p so I'm not sure if I can go lower than that?

    I did a test record at the standard settings at 1080 and the file size was massive! I have plenty of storage space but there is a limit it would be ridiculous if I carried on with these settings.
    Yes, indeed. A file captured at 1080p would be huge. If I remember my own tests correctly, I recorded a 5 minute sample at 1080p, and came up with an estimate of close to 8GB/hour. (EDIT: My capture device is standalone, so it doesn't have any settings. It simply records whatever signal is passed through it. And since my BD player outputs 1080p/60fps, that's what it recorded.)

    According to the manual for your player, you can go as low as 480/576 (NTSC/PAL) - either interlaced or progressive. You can experiment whether interlaced or progressive gives you better results. I assume the player defaults to "automatic", and since the capture device can accept 1080, that's what the player would output, so you have to change it in the settings menu.
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  23. Honestly, VHS to digital these days does not take any effort at all. And it cost peanuts.
    Remember years ago, with slow processors & slow HDs, slow USB 1.1/2 connections and no hardware encoders it was a nightmare (best I could ever do is AV to DV bridge via Firewire or harware mpeg2 PCI card)

    Now none of this applies. Cheapest would be EzCap device with Bandicam on Intel processor to utilize Intel Quick Sync encoder,
    Job done.

    Or get any Hauppauge device ie HDPVR Model: 49001 = 1212 on fleebay and use Hauppauge Capture

    There is no need to get involved in HDMI etc, as the source is just BAD 480i !!!
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  24. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sebus View Post
    Honestly, VHS to digital these days does not take any effort at all. And it cost peanuts.
    Remember years ago, with slow processors & slow HDs, slow USB 1.1/2 connections and no hardware encoders it was a nightmare (best I could ever do is AV to DV bridge via Firewire or harware mpeg2 PCI card)

    Now none of this applies. Cheapest would be EzCap device with Bandicam on Intel processor to utilize Intel Quick Sync encoder,
    Job done.

    Or get any Hauppauge device ie HDPVR Model: 49001 = 1212 on fleebay and use Hauppauge Capture

    There is no need to get involved in HDMI etc, as the source is just BAD 480i !!!
    Apparently you missed the whole point of this thread. The reason for HDMI being discussed here is because that's what his VCR outputs.
    Do or do not. There is no "try." - Yoda
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  25. Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    Originally Posted by lozii View Post
    There are options for resolution, video bitrate, audio bitrate and framerate and I am not sure how low I should go on the settings for VHS. I noticed somebody on this thread mentions my player can output 1080p and 720p so I'm not sure if I can go lower than that?

    I did a test record at the standard settings at 1080 and the file size was massive! I have plenty of storage space but there is a limit it would be ridiculous if I carried on with these settings.
    Yes, indeed. A file captured at 1080p would be huge. If I remember my own tests correctly, I recorded a 5 minute sample at 1080p, and came up with an estimate of close to 8GB/hour. (EDIT: My capture device is standalone, so it doesn't have any settings. It simply records whatever signal is passed through it. And since my BD player outputs 1080p/60fps, that's what it recorded.)

    According to the manual for your player, you can go as low as 480/576 (NTSC/PAL) - either interlaced or progressive. You can experiment whether interlaced or progressive gives you better results. I assume the player defaults to "automatic", and since the capture device can accept 1080, that's what the player would output, so you have to change it in the settings menu.
    Image
    [Attachment 41108 - Click to enlarge]
    You can download the complete user manual for your player here.


    I would be happy with 8gb an hour I did a test of a few minutes and it was 1.5gb lol

    I will look into the settings on the vcr, now I just need to work out how to set the bitrates and fps optimally
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  26. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lozii View Post
    I would be happy with 8gb an hour I did a test of a few minutes and it was 1.5gb lol

    I will look into the settings on the vcr, now I just need to work out how to set the bitrates and fps optimally
    Still, 8GB/hour is kind of overkill for a VHS capture. That's over 18 Mbps -- almost BluRay bit rate. Unless you're planning on doing a lot of post-process editing, there's not much point in wasting the real estate on that.

    If you're PAL video territory, I would set the VCR to output as 576p as a start, and set the capture at 25fps.
    If you're NTSC, make it 480p & 29.97fps.

    Any bit rate over 2 Mbps should give you good picture quality at that resolution.
    Do or do not. There is no "try." - Yoda
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  27. Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    Apparently you missed the whole point of this thread. The reason for HDMI being discussed here is because that's what his VCR outputs.
    OK, replace it with HDPVR 2 GE Model: 145210 / 157210 / 157310 = 1480
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  28. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sebus View Post
    Originally Posted by awgie View Post
    Apparently you missed the whole point of this thread. The reason for HDMI being discussed here is because that's what his VCR outputs.
    OK, replace it with HDPVR 2 GE Model: 145210 / 157210 / 157310 = 1480
    So, you're suggesting to buy this software for $30 (since you keep linking to the page for the software, not the device), plus you have to buy the hardware device. Plus, for your device to record HDMI, you still need the splitter to bypass the HDCP signal. So much for your claim that it "cost peanuts".

    Did you also miss the part in the conversation where the OP has already purchased a device that came with its own software? Yes, he still had to get the splitter to work with that device, but he didn't have to pay the extra $30 for your additional software. So his solution costs less than yours.
    Do or do not. There is no "try." - Yoda
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  29. Capturing Memories dellsam34's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lozii View Post
    Thanks for all your replies I know I am quite late replying but I wasn't aware anybody had replied and forgot about it my bad.

    I read through what you have all said the other day and bought some things to try and perform my digitising, a lot of what has been said on this thread has gone over my head to be perfectly honest.

    I have bought an Avermedia Extremecap U3 and an hdmi splitter which is apparently known to strip HDMI protection.


    I have a new question though I might start a new thread if it doesn't get seen here but here goes.

    In the Avermedia software (which is quite good) there are a number of options for quality etc and I'm not sure how to set them for VHS recording, anything I find on google is aimed at game capture.

    There are options for resolution, video bitrate, audio bitrate and framerate and I am not sure how low I should go on the settings for VHS. I noticed somebody on this thread mentions my player can output 1080p and 720p so I'm not sure if I can go lower than that?

    I did a test record at the standard settings at 1080 and the file size was massive! I have plenty of storage space but there is a limit it would be ridiculous if I carried on with these settings.
    Since you are talking about Microvision I would assume that they are commercial tapes, I would look if those titles are available on DVD or blu-ray first, You can get them online for peanuts and better quality too as they are scanned from the original film strip, For the ones that never made it to the digital world obviously they need to be captured and digitized, Using HDMI route in my opinion will not make better quality due to the following:

    1- You VCR ADC converts the video from analog to digital which could be of lower quality compared to a dedicated analog capture device.

    2- Your VCR dinterlaces and up scales the video which is an unnecessary step if you plan to edit the contents later, and dinterlacing could do harm to an interlaced video if it is not done right.

    3- Your HDMI capture card takes the HDMI stream, compresses it and encodes it to whatever format the card outputs, and that is another an unnecessary step if you plan to edit the contents later.

    So I would call that a multiple loss, If your VCR doesn't have S-Video you can use composite and just use a USB capture card that is capable of capturing in lossless AVI 4:2:2, Once the AVI is on your hard drive it's all handled by software afterwards, whether you plan to edit, compress, encode or just watch the lossless video as it is.

    Unfortunately I cannot help you with the Microvion part as I'm not familiar with it, I do have AVT-8710 and worked fine on a couple of tapes as seen on virtualdub, But never captured prerecord tapes as I never needed to.
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  30. Member awgie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dellsam34 View Post
    2- Your VCR dinterlaces and up scales the video which is an unnecessary step if you plan to edit the contents later, and dinterlacing could do harm to an interlaced video if it is not done right.
    Food for thought. (I actually have a couple commercial DVDs that appear to have been improperly de-telecined when the studio converted them from the original film, so any time there's rapid movement - like the camera panning across a room - the image jumps forward and back the whole way. I originally thought the problem was with how I encoded the files, but I went back and watched the DVD itself, and it does the same thing.)

    The VCR can output 480i/576i, so in theory it shouldn't de-interlace and then re-interlace the video, and at that resolution it's not being upscaled. So in theory, that should give you the same stream as what the composite video output would.

    The up-side to using the VCR's 480p/576p output is that the VCR should be de-interlacing the stream in the proper order, and in proper sync with the fields, so you should get a better picture than if you recorded composite video output without a TBC.

    You could also try recording 480i/576i at 59.94fps to try and capture each field in its own frame, but without a TBC, you will likely still end up with parts of two fields being recorded in a single frame.
    Do or do not. There is no "try." - Yoda
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