VirutaDUB Interlaced Output and Audio Errors.

[vodmare]

Hi guys,

I don't recall having this issue before, but I am now using VDUBMPEG version 1.6.19 and it imports fine and at the correct frame rate of 23.97, which is what I want - I removed the flag pull down. The problem is that when I output, at the same frame rate, it's interlaced. I am using PICvideo MJPEG version 4. I don't see a field option for it, and also when I was doing this before, a few years ago, at this step there was no interlacing issue. What am I doing wrong here?

Also, when the file imports there is a message: MPEG: Anachronistic or discontinuous timestamp found in audio stream 29 at byte position 13381650, from 1806598 to 1876975. This may indicate an improper join.

Actually, there are like 15 of them, with differing numbers.

Now, in the past the audio has always been out of sync, but it wasn't that big of a deal, because at the time I rarely needed the audio, and if I did, it was very easy to re sync in my editor. Is there anything that I can do to make it import and output still synced?

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

When you say the output is interlaced are you saying you see comb lines in the frames? Or just that some software is telling you the video is interlaced?

[vodmare]

Hi,

There are comb lines in the frames. They appear during playback with Windows Media Player and if import into my editor and then export into another codec, they appear.

I realize there is a filter for de-interlacing, but that puts and effect of the entire video, that is something that I don't want. I'm thinking there has go to be some way to interpret the footage on import....or maybe something else?

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

You're using VirtualDubMPEG2? Go to Options -> Preferences. Select MPEG in the left pane. In the right pane make sure Honor "repeat first field" flags is not enabled. Press the Save button and close the dialog. If that doesn't work then your MPEG video is not 23.976 fps progressive with pulldown flags, it's hard telecined or pure interlaced video (note that an MPEG file can change from one to the other midstream, some programs only look at the first MPEG header to report frame rate and telecine status, so they may not be accurate for the entire video). If it's telecined film you can restore the original progressive frames with an inverse telecine (IVTC). VirtualDub's built in IVTC filter isn't very good. Using DgIndex and AviSynth to perform the IVTC, then feeding VirtualDub with that is the way to go.

[vodmare]

Hi,

The settings are as you suggested and it's still interlaced on output, although now the input display doesn't seem to be interlaced.....either way, the output is.

Here, let me explain what I am doing and then maybe you can tell me what I have and possibly a better solution (like the one you already provided)

What I do, is I rip a movie from a DVD, in this case Star Wars. And in order to get the .VOB file into an editable format, I take it into VDUB and export into a Lossless (claims to be anyway) format. Then I am able to import it into premiere and cut it up and make my own little movie out of it. Then in the end, I back it up of course lossless, but ultimately it goes back to a DVD format for playback on TV, Computer etc.

For that process right there, I always thought that the film was shot and stayed at 23.976 and perhaps flags on flags off whatever, it might play 29.97 in your dvd player. But for my purpose, across the board, shouldn't I try to keep it at 23.976 ?

I know you said the stream can change and it may not be progressive. My hope is that it is, so assuming that it is indeed 23.976 progressive, whats route would you suggest in getting it from .vob to my codec and retaining the films FPS ?

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

Open your final VOB file with GSpot. What does it say about Pics/s, Frames/s, Fields/s? A progressive MPEG video with pulldown flags should show 23.976, 29.97, and 59.94. If it was hard telecined it would show 29.97, 29.97, and 59.94. I suspect Premiere might be performing a hard telecine. Check your source VOB too.

Another thing you can do is post short excerpts from your source, intermediate, and final files. DgIndex is good for demuxing short clips from MPG and VOB files. For your AVI files use VirtualDub in Video -> Direct Stream Copy mode.

[vodmare]

Hi,

I'm trying to attach or post a screen shot of the specs for the .vob that I loaded into GSPOT. From what I can tell, from your comments, it's a progressive mpeg with pull downs. The .vob that I loaded was the one ripped directly from the DVD.

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

Yes, that's progressive with pulldown flags. Is that the source DVD or the DVD you made?

[vodmare]

That one was from the .vob directly off of the DVD.

I put it into VDUB and exported a clip using PICvideo compression. I took that into GSPOT and it says:

pics/s 23.976 - frames/s 23.976 - fields/s is blank. There is no number there on the fields area.

Attached here is a pic of the controls screen for the codec, I never really screw with this area. Do you think any of these might fix the issue?

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

Try turning off the "2 fields if more than 240 lines" option. Import the resulting AVI into Premiere and encode as MPEG 2. Then check the MPEG 2 file with GSpot.

[vodmare]

Hi,

Okay. Turning off the 240 lines option fixes the interlacing problem. So that's good. But when I export from premiere, it comes up in GSPOT as 29.97 - 29.97 - 59.94 - I have to export as an .avi not an mpeg, would that be messing with it?

So it's converting it to 29.97 frames? I need to keep it at 23.976 right?

The project that I created in premiere was DV 24p - widescreen - 48k

By the way, for what I am doing, would that be the correct pre-set? I mean, the movie is widescreen, but when I export it looks like it's a little squished on the sides. Should the project be widescreen or normal 4:3 ?

[poisondeathray]

export into a Lossless (claims to be anyway) format

Just an FYI, the version of MJPEG you are using isn't lossless . It never claims to be. LJPEG made by the same company is lossless.

Anyway, if your final format goal is DVD , you can't use NTSC DV24p widescreen preset (that's for telecined 24p in 60i DV material) . You need to make a custom sequence setting under "desktop" settings. 720x480 , widescreen , 23.976 fps native (assuming you've done everything correctly in vdubmpeg2 , and you have a native progressive 23.976 stream)

You can export MPEG2 out of premiere , or a lossless intermediate (eg. uncompressed AVI) for import into your MPEG2 encoder of choice, then author

[vodmare]

Hi,

The Ljpeg - is that for video as well? On their website, I got the impression that it was best for hi res doctor photographs. I guess I've been confused about the lossy and the lossless. I still like it, it looks good and it works, I mean it bugs me a little still....

Thank you for the heads up on the codec and the presets, I've been starting to wonder if I had it right or not.

Any ideas on the audio sync? Is there a way to get vdub to sync correctly when I export out of it?

Thanks.

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

PicVideo has both lossy and lossless MJPEG compressors.

How is the audio sync off? Does it start out in sync and get gradually out of sync? Or is it off by a fixed amount for the whole video? Or is does it happen at the points where you are seeing those errors? When you play the source video is the audio in sync?

Note that the audio offset in a VOB file can change at any time. Many programs can't handle that. In a worst case scenario you might have to play the video with a media player and re-record the audio as it's playing (most audio cards have a "what you hear" device to record from -- that lets you record any audio that's playing on the computer).

[vodmare]

Hi,

When the file imports there is a message: MPEG: Anachronistic or discontinuous timestamp found in audio stream 29 at byte position 13381650, from 1806598 to 1876975. This may indicate an improper join.

On playback, be it media player or in premiere it's off. Not by much, maybe like 2 or 3 seconds. Usually I just retime it right there on the time line. I just thought maybe there was a way to make it act right in Vdub. It's not a huge deal, I can work with it.

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

If it's off by a fixed amount for the entire video all you have to do is adjust the audio skew in VirtualDub. Audio -> Interleaving -> Delay Audio Track by [ ] ms. Use positive values to delay the audio, negative to advance it.

[vodmare]

Hello again,

OKAY, I had to put this down and step back for a moment to get a fresh look. The problem I'm having now is with Premeire, CS5. The file that comes in out of VDUB is a real deal 23.976 file, looks and plays great. But when I output, it seems to get squished....maybe not squished but its certainly not as wide as the input, and a result from that I think, is that it's not interlaced, but the edges are screwed up.

My project file for Premiere is a 720x480 native widescreen 23.976 custom preset. The output is the same, e.g. widescreen, .avi 23.976.

Something I found interesting though, is that if I use .avi it hard telecines the file. But if I use PIC it keeps it soft. Although, there are no fields listed. I've been checking it in GSPOT.

I'm sure it's me. Any ideas? Thanks.

-vodmare.

[vodmare]

Heres a screen shot, if that helps.

[poisondeathray]

right click the clip in the clip bin, and interpret the file to widescreen aspect ratio (premiere "thinks" it's 4:3 right now - it says 0.9091 for the pixel aspect ratio) . Also make sure you are using the correct matching sequence settings for widesccreen

[vodmare]

Here is what it was (below) - it's interpreted the same as the input, so shouldn't that still be correct? I mean, it must not be because I changed it to d1/dv ntsc widescreen 16:9 (1.2121) and that seemed to correct the size. However, now I've super bad interlacing, or really the edges are just very very bad, I dont think it's interlacing.

Aside from that issue, when I do straight .AVI and it hard telecines, does that put it out of sync at all if you went to dvd from that point? I ask because the file I am using is 23.976 and then it does the hard Telecine, is that okay?

Right now, I'm just trying to get the PIC to act right staying 23.976.

I turned off and on the "more than 240" lines option and its the same.

[vodmare]

I think has something to do with a codec setting. I say this, because the regular DV NTSC output, while doesnt look great, it doesnt have the problem......

I think I need to get the mpeg plugin so I can see what the real final output would look like.....

What do you think?

-vodmare.

[poisondeathray]

What format did you export from vdub ? also what codec ? use mediainfo (view=>text)

Premiere is interpreting the file incorrectly, set it so it's widescreen , not 0.9091 which is for 4:3 NTSC DV

Did you IVTC ? If you're sure your export has been IVTCed correctly and it's progressive (native) 23.976pN , then conform the file with the options in the interpret settings to progressive (no fields).

[vodmare]

Here is the info using the tool you mentioned on the file that came out of VDUB. The codec that I used is the lossy version of the MJPEG PICvideo compressor. I am not sure that it has been IVTC, I assumed it was after using GSPOT to interpret the frames.

[poisondeathray]

I don't use vdubmpeg2 to IVTC, but if it worked correctly , then everything should work fine in premiere

you just have to interpret the file - did you try it yet ? under pixel aspect ratio use conform to widescreen , under field order conform to progressive

if vdubmpeg2 didn't work correctly, then you don't have native progressive file ; if it's still telecined then you will get combing, and it will look interlaced on some frames as you suggested above

I mean, it must not be because I changed it to d1/dv ntsc widescreen 16:9 (1.2121) and that seemed to correct the size. However, now I've super bad interlacing, or really the edges are just very very bad, I dont think it's interlacing.

If you can't figure it out, post a sample

Did you figure out the sync issues ? Did you decrypt the DVD correctly ? e.g with anydvd ?

[vodmare]

I think I got it! I had to keep the 240 lines off in the codec and then let it keep the same fields it was using in the original file out of vdub. But I still have the interpret it as wide. Jesus, this is a lot more confusing that it used to be. Man, you really can see the artifacts.....I'll have to play with it, or change codecs.

As for the sync. I used DVD Shrink 3.2 to rip. The movies themselves, like if you played them in WMP, are fine. It's just when I import into VDUB to convert to a format that I can edit with, that the sync goes out. I believe someone mentioned where you can + or - in VDUB to get the sync back, so that's something I want to try. But for now I just wanted to get this damn video thing resolved before I start.

I really, really appreciate your help, all of your help, thanks for being patient.

After some conversion I'm sure I find something else

-vodmare.

[jagabo]

As for the sync. I used DVD Shrink 3.2 to rip. The movies themselves, like if you played them in WMP, are fine. It's just when I import into VDUB to convert to a format that I can edit with, that the sync goes out. I believe someone mentioned where you can + or - in VDUB to get the sync back, so that's something I want to try.

The best way to handle DVD MPEG sources is to use DgIndex to build an index file (.D2V) and demux the audio, then AviSynth to open the index file and IVTC if necessary, and finally use VirtualDub to open the AviSynth file and import the audio.