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  1. Member
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    How do I combine a number of clips to make them ONE long clip and not many different clips grouped together?

    I can render to a new track but dosent this just create another generation of video or audio for me to lose quality from?

    I'm sure I saw somewhere a way to save a track as a complete file in your media bins somewhere???

    **In pro tools its called "consolidate selectuion".

    Thanks
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  2. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    you could render to a lossless format. or if it's one of vegas's smart render formats it would be a lossless render anyway to create a single file.

    DV AVI, DV MXF, IMX MXF (IMX 24p MXF is not supported for smart rendering), HD MXF, MPEG-2 (for files such as those from HDV and DVD camcorders), XDCAM EX.
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    Problem then is that if i go on to alter, edit, pan, crop or change the new track it will need to be re rendered again?
    And I was under the impression that unlike audio whatever format you render to when you re-edit and render again then there will be some generation quality loss. (I could be wrong though????)

    I did find "create subclip" but this only seems to work if there is no gaps between clips. If there is it creates a subclip for each set of clips not directly attached to eachother.
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    .....there must be a way for Vegas to just see all the clips complete with effects, cuts, fades etc as a single long clip on the timeline without having to physically create the clip??

    + what if I wanted to "Normalise" all my audio?
    Seems the only way to do this is to right click - properties on every clip?
    Extremely tedious when you have hundreds of sound clips on the timeline and this would mean my quiet clips would be loud and my loud clips would be the same?? I need to normalsie the whole production as one entity!!

    This is a very simple and always available option with sound editing programes!

    Yes...you guesed it I'm new to this video nonscence and cant understand why its not like sound editing!!!
    Last edited by Compo; 23rd Oct 2011 at 14:12.
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  5. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    if you just want to preview it, click the play icon under the timeline.

    when i wish to edit all the audio clips together i render it out to wav and open in an audio editor, then bring back the altered wav. otherwise afaik you can only send one clip at a time to soundforge to work on or have vegas change.
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    preview it??? Am I missing something or are you teklling me how to preview footage on the timeline?????? I think I'm quite capable of that!!
    I want to make either the whole thing or maybe even large chunks more managable.
    What if I wanted to slowly rotate the whole piece or long sections made up of numerous clips from start to finish using pan/crop?
    (please dont answer this question specifically- its not what I want to do).

    So are you saying that you either dont know how or it cannot be done? i.e. combine all clips edits etc to one clip without rendering out and normalising all audio clips at the same time within vegas??
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  7. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @Compo,

    In ProTools, clips are referenced from original media. That media might be comprised from many sources which need to have their origination links kept track of. You might not know it, but ProTools:

    1. Defaults to COPYING ALL media files to a [ProjectFolder|AudioFilesSubfolder].
    2. Converts ALL media that is non-native into the Project default (however that's set - usually SD2, AIF, or WAV, mono - but sometimes stereo or multichannel, LPCM, 16 or 24bits, 44/48/88/96/176/192kHz).****
    3. Replaces, In-Place in the timeline, the original imported media.

    This means that any links to original media no longer will apply. The newly consolidated clip media also is comprosed of the same settings as your project.
    Since it's all LPCM, there's never any generational loss. There is very minor loss due to any processing that occurred in the consolidation (because of constriction to final bit depth of larger calculations).

    How this applies to you is that, you can use clips this way, but their levels, effects, etc are BAKED IN, the clips no longer reference their original sources, there is rendering time involved (usually very short for audio files of short/medium length), and there is minimal loss. That's what's going on in ProTools.***

    ---------------------

    How this occurs in Vegas is that there is no exact single function as this, however there is one very similar: [Render | To New Track].

    This also takes time to render (much more than audio would), also bakes in the effects/look, also removes the reference to the original media, also uses either smart rendering (for those clips that can smart render) or renders to media using project settings, but loss depends on a lot of factors (smart media type, project settings, fx use..).

    It also does NOT replace IN-PLACE, it adds a new track. You would have to manually, or by prepared script, find the previously selected clips and replace (if you so desired, but not really necessary).

    It does at least re-import the clip into the project/timeline...

    ---------

    Whether you're using Audio in ProTools, or in Audio/Video in Vegas, if you modify/alter an already rendered clip, it WILL need to be re-rendered (either then, or on output), and if you use compression, there WILL be loss (not usually affects audio for obvious reasons).

    ----------

    AFAIK, there are scripts available (on the VASST site maybe?) which allow for "batch normalization" of audio clips in Vegas.


    Hope that helps,

    Scott

    ***edit: for sound projects that rely on other sources (film, video, other external audo or midi), it is a BAD idea to consolidate early in the project unless there is no other way to work with the clip(s) in question AND maintain a clean, handle-able project. Mostly, "consolidate" is truly reserved for project-ending, long-term janitorial & archival activies where you don't want to maintain those links or keep outtakes. I know this the hard way from experience.

    **** Update: PT 10 now allows both converting to project filetype or combined/dissimilar native filetype timelines/projects (all manner of samplerates/bitdepths/channels within a timeline), 32bit float files, RF64 (>4GB WAV) support, up to 768tracks/256voices, compressed-file support, as well as a whole lot more other stuff...
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 25th Oct 2011 at 14:10.
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  8. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    when working on audio it works best to do one clip at a time anyway. if you combined a clips with widely varied audio and one was at 0db already you couldn't normalize anything. the low volume clips would remain low and the high at it's peak.
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  9. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Post changed, see below.
    Last edited by budwzr; 24th Oct 2011 at 13:44.
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    Thanks Scott
    Thats exactly the information I was looking for and explained extremely well!!!. Now I understand.
    Cheers

    Colin
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  11. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Compo View Post
    preview it??? Am I missing something or are you teklling me how to preview footage on the timeline?????? I think I'm quite capable of that!!
    No, that's not what's being said. He's saying you can render the audio to uncompressed and work on that in your favorite audio software or bring it back to Vegas as a single event without rendering the video.

    If you can't comprehend or use information being offered, it's not polite to give a snooty sneer then try to insult the offerer as if their offering is somehow below par, or not up to your high standards.

    And over-graciously accepting another's advice does not exonerate the offense, it amplifies it even more, cementing it in everyone's mind.

    Mean people suck!
    Last edited by budwzr; 24th Oct 2011 at 13:53.
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  12. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    Mean people suck!
    <-------
    guess i'm doomed to hell
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  13. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    Mean people suck!
    <-------
    guess i'm doomed to hell
    Nah, you're just bluffing.
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  14. You can arrange your clips however you want on 1 layer in Vegas then apply an effect or filter to the entire layer. It sounds like what you are doing is applying filters to each clip. If all your clips need to be changed, the same way, with the same filters, use the master filter chain on that layer.

    I do this to audio sometimes. You can compress\limit the entire audio layer containing multiple clips so the levels will be consistant.
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  15. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    I don't get the problem. Vegas has a full blown pro audio editor sitting right there on the track, with everything AND the kitchen sink, including VST plugs and envelopes.

    Pro Tools? Hahaha, Avid was bumped off it's throne a while ago by an angry mob of their own customers that got tired of being hosed.

    That's why I mentioned before, in another post, not to go looking around in dialog boxes and pulldown menus like Premiere. Everything is right where you need it, right there in the audio track. Recording too, hahaha.
    Last edited by budwzr; 24th Oct 2011 at 17:50.
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  16. The OP is making the same mistake I did when I first started using Vegas. There are effects for the clips and a master effects chain for the layer. So you can apply a filter to the whole layer or to each individual clip in a layer. He is doing the ladder. I use the master layer effects for applying a filter across the whole project and the clip effects to tweak localized clip issues.

    Anyway, the OP needs to watch some Vegas tutorials instead of getting all beligerant on a help forum.
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  17. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by magillagorilla View Post
    I use the master layer effects for applying a filter across the whole project and the clip effects to tweak localized clip issues.
    Yes, and you can also turn on envelopes and do everything at track level too.

    Last edited by budwzr; 25th Oct 2011 at 10:33.
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  18. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    you still can't normalize more than 1 clip at a time. which is what the op was asking.
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  19. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    you still can't normalize more than 1 clip at a time. which is what the op was asking.
    No, but that's already been discussed and answered to render out to PCM.

    The audio editing in Vegas rarely gets discussed though, and I wanted to expand a little on it because it's really quite good, but you have to dig down in there to find the best stuff.

    [bastard]aedipuss[/bastard]
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  20. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    i always send the audio out to soundforge to work on(right click on audio track/send copy to s.f.). i find it much easier to work on the audio separately and with s.f. it's very easy to get things done the way i want them. and it replaces the original with the adjusted on return to vegas.
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  21. For major work, noise reduction, notch filtering, normalizing or whatever, I work in Soundforge. But a big bunch of those filters are right there in Vegas, so there usually not a reason for me to leave the application.
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  22. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by budwzr View Post
    I don't get the problem. Vegas has a full blown pro audio editor sitting right there on the track, with everything AND the kitchen sink, including VST plugs and envelopes.

    Pro Tools? Hahaha, Avid was bumped off it's throne a while ago by an angry mob of their own customers that got tired of being hosed.

    That's why I mentioned before, in another post, not to go looking around in dialog boxes and pulldown menus like Premiere. Everything is right where you need it, right there in the audio track. Recording too, hahaha.
    sorry budwzr,
    Here, you don't know what you're talking about and are parrotting parts of other's stories. And I believe mixing up the difference between AVID's MediaComposer/Xpress (NLE) line and AVID's Digidesign ProTools (DAW) line.

    I do LOVE my Vegas & Soundforge (a LOT), but I L-O-V-E my ProTools! Think of a tool that is Vegas+Soundforge all in one program, but without distractions of all the video editing/fx stuff (since it is Audio-only, or Audio-for-Video, not PrimarlilyVideo), or the CD mastering/burning stuff. Then add in: even more natural event-based tool gui, simultaneous MIDI composition/editing/mixing, support for samplerate pull-up/down, sync chasing, Full MXF Import/Export (not just AAF), the best Time Stretch/Compression around, both destructive & non-destructive ways of working, playback while editing, expanded automation features, GREATLY EXPANDED simultaneous tracks/buses/bitdepths/mixer resolution, GREATLY EXPANDED hardware/controlsurface connection/growth possibilities, and THEN you'd be getting close to what ProTools can do. If you are a top flight music recording/editing studio, ADR/Foley studio, Music for Movies scoring/editing facility, etc., you are likely using ProTools as your main workstation, not something else (though they will often have those other things for certain side purposes).

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 25th Oct 2011 at 14:10.
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  23. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia View Post
    sorry budwzr, Here, you don't know what you're talking about and are parrotting parts of other's stories. And I believe mixing up the difference between AVID's MediaComposer/Xpress (NLE) line and AVID's Digidesign ProTools (DAW) line.
    Well, they must have dramatically improved lately. Last year or two ago all I heard was grumbling about Avid and their lousy support and overpriced editing software still costing $1000's but not updated much.

    From what I read, they had a monopoly on the professional Hollywood editor crowd, like Walter Murch, but the consumer products had a lot more features and format support for a LOT less moola and there was a backlash against them.

    People felt like they were milking the customer base, and had a haughty attitude. I guess I assumed the rest of their product line wasn't too good either.

    Anyways, I'm not saying Vegas is a DAW, by no means, it falls way short. And Acid sucks too. Myself, I prefer Ableton.

    All the stuff you're talking about, and a lot more, is common old hat in DAW's these days.

    P.S. VASST sucks too. Their stuff is so old, it has mold growing on it.
    Last edited by budwzr; 25th Oct 2011 at 15:50.
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  24. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Hey, I just went over to the Avid site to check out their stuff. I think this snap speaks for itself. It's even got the fancy Feng Shui styling. And check out all the bling in that display screen! And those high-tech plastic rocker switches.

    They have a whole section titled "Handheld Recorders", like they have a whole line, but this is the only one.

    Same old Avid.



    Image
    [Attachment 9325 - Click to enlarge]

    Avid's "World Class Recorder For Professionals" $97
    Last edited by budwzr; 25th Oct 2011 at 17:10.
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  25. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    when you were looking at it did you click on the "learn more" link? give it a try
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  26. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    when you were looking at it did you click on the "learn more" link? give it a try
    Yeah, it goes to some page full of text links, hahaha. I didn't want to mention that too, and throw gas on the fire, hahaha, Scott's gonna hate me.

    On another page, they had a big display proclaiming "M-Audio is Avid", as if they're proud, hahaha.

    That recorder has RCA jacks, HAHAHAHA, did you see that? World Class? Should be "3rd World Class", hahaha.
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  27. aBigMeanie aedipuss's Avatar
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    far as i can tell m-audio doesn't even make it anymore. all websites list it as
    M-Audio MicroTrack II (No Longer Available)
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  28. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    far as i can tell m-audio doesn't even make it anymore. all websites list it as
    M-Audio MicroTrack II (No Longer Available)
    See how they are? Nobody wants that hunk-o-junk, but the still have it for sale on their site. I can't believe they even tried to bring something like that to market as a professional product.

    Can you imagine using something like that in the field? And telling people it's for professionals?

    For the same price, you can get a Zoom H1.
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  29. Member budwzr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aedipuss View Post
    far as i can tell m-audio doesn't even make it anymore. all websites list it as
    M-Audio MicroTrack II (No Longer Available)
    That lcd screen looks like it was swapped in from old parts, it doesn't even fit the ridged space it's in, and the display pixels seem to be only active in the center area, the rest is dead space prolly.

    They used to do something like that with lcd tvs too, put a black band around the edge to make the screen look bigger when it's off.
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  30. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    @budwzr,
    Look, I wouldn't buy that either, you're right that a Zoom H1, H2, H4, etc would be a better deal.

    But that has literally NOTHING to do with their software divisions, and nearly nothing to do with their (REAL) pro hardware. Apples and Oranges.
    The whole M-Audio line was Consumer/Pro-sumer (whatever their marketing speak would tell you). Not too surprised there.

    AFA their Pro Software (MC, DS/Symphony, ISIS, PT, Sibelius):

    Yes, it's using an older marketing model which seems quite overpriced in this day and age.
    No, their support has historically been and still overall remains very good - as long as you tow the line on their "approved hardware" lists. (that's what usually gets people in trouble)
    Yes, they did nearly have a Monopoly on the pro crowd (AVID MC). FCP changed all that; it's (FCP) NOT a "consumer" app, but pro-sumer or lower/med pro. AVID still holds a plurality (if not majority) of seats at pro houses. Digidesign/PT didn't "fall" nearly as far.
    No, consumer apps still don't have as many real features as these do, it's just the features these have cater to high-end pros, so the "consumer" features might lag (for a version or 3) compared to those consumer apps.
    Yes and No, file formats had been limited, but really aren't any longer. They're still less than many consumer apps that cover nearly everything, but pros don't need to get their sources from every consumer format, they use a select few tried-n-true. That's what's supported. They feel if you need those, use a batch converter or something. I agree.
    Yes, they were kind of "milking" the customer base, no more though.
    No, the rest of their product line (with the exception of the Pinnacle/Dazzle lines) is top notch and rock solid.

    I just took a look at Ableton, and while it's got all the usual good stuff, and some interesting things with loops and dj riffs-n-shit, there's a lot missing. Particularly LARGE FORMAT hardware support. Looking at it's manual, I don't even see how it's possible to do the kind of session I've done in the past: recording 48 hidef tracks in of a symphony orchestra while synced to picture and playing back live another 30 hidef tracks, with many submix and foldback/monitor busses, using 50+ live processing plugins, while simultaneously recording and playing back fader automation (with the faders manned by extra guys at the multiple mixer boards) and outputting simultaneously to a couple of different mono, stereo and surround versions (so the producers can A/B them) - all in one take. (and not breaking a sweat)
    edit: sorry but I also think the ableton interface/gui looks like an old toy compared to PT.
    Yes, PT at first looks like every other DAW if you use CPU-native, software-only modes, but once you start needing hardware, or superfast turnarounds, for your workflow, you start understanding just why it's so well liked.

    *************************

    Now, maybe we should get back on topic...

    Scott
    Last edited by Cornucopia; 25th Oct 2011 at 22:17.
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