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  1. Member
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    I have got a bunch of mpgs that contain videos gotten from VHS in 640x480 25f/s at approximately 2000b/s.
    I would like to compress them further for about 1000b/s.

    They are a bit grainy, a bit noise sometimes, not so sharp. What is the best strategy for me?
    If I could improve the sharpness and reduce the noise in the process that would be great.
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  2. Banned
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    While it is possible to do some filtering via AviSynth and a few other tools, your bit rates are very low for MPEG video. I assume you mean MPEG-2. You are proposing taking something at almost full DVD resolution and giving it a bit rate below VCD. That's not going to have a happy ending for you even if you do some filtering first.
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    Sorry, I didn't put right specs. Here is the example of the files I'm dealing with:

    Format : MPEG Video
    Format version : Version 1
    Format settings, BVOP : Yes
    Format settings, Matrix : Custom
    Duration : 29mn 57s
    Bit rate : 1 938 Kbps
    Maximum bit rate : 1 950 Kbps
    Width : 352 pixels
    Height : 240 pixels
    Display aspect ratio : 4:3
    Frame rate : 29.970 fps
    Standard : NTSC

    My question is applicable both for free and commercial products.
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    Same reply as earlier. VHS looks like crap to begin with, but captured to MPEG1 at half-frame size looks even worse. You apparently don't intend to view on HDTV, not even a small one. What's your intended use for viewing this godawful frame size and lower bitrate that you propose?
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 09:56.
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    You're working with VCD resolution video at a somewhat higher bit rate than normal for VCD. I don't know what filtering is even possible for MPEG-1 video. Maybe TMPGenc has a few options you can use, but your options are going to be rather limited. And lowering the bit rate is going to make this look worse even if you do filter it. I think you're just going to have to live with what you have.
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    Agreed. It's a little too late to think about cleanup and sharpening. That should have been done before committing your interlaced VHS to MPEG-1.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 09:56.
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  7. If you want to spend a lot of time learning AviSynth you could deblock, dering, denoise, sharpen, upscale and encode with x264 to make files that look a little better.
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    I intend to view them on a normal TV, not LCD TV via Media player.
    Yes, the bitrate is higher than normal VCD, that's why I was thinking to bring it down.

    Can you give me an idea of what options should I supply to AviSynth to accomplish what you have proposed? Then, in order to use AviSynth I will need to reencode it to AVI?
    Is there is some place I could upload 1-2MB sample so that you could take a look on how the video look like and give me an idea of what filters I should be using? (Perhaps could share it from google drive?)
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  9. Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    Yes, the bitrate is higher than normal VCD, that's why I was thinking to bring it down.
    Stop thinking. It's a ridiculous idea.
    Can you give me an idea of what options should I supply to AviSynth to accomplish what you have proposed?
    The AviSynth plugins and functions for the filtering jagabo suggested, most of them anyway, can be found in one of two places:
    http://avisynth.nl/index.php/External_filters
    http://avisynth.org/warpenterprises/

    Then, in order to use AviSynth I will need to reencode it to AVI?
    You can reencode it to whatever you like. But yes, it'll have to be reencoded.
    Is there is some place I could upload 1-2MB sample...
    You can upload samples here or to any file sharing site.
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    Attached the example with name oldmovie.mpg.
    As I see the main problem it is grainy, but I'm far from an expert.
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    Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    Attached the example with name oldmovie.mpg.
    As I see the main problem it is grainy, but I'm far from an expert.
    That's not the "main problem". The main problem is that it's been incorrectly deinterlaced -- no fix for that, sorry. Half of the original fields were discarded; not the way to do it. Another problem is that the video isn't really standard "VCD", it's just an off-size generic MPEG1. Not much one could do with it.

    VCD specs (PAL and NTSC)
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 09:57.
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    First you said 640x480 then posted specs of 352x240 and this video is 320x240.

    Scrap it and start over from the VHS.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    Attached the example with name oldmovie.mpg.
    As I see the main problem it is grainy, but I'm far from an expert.
    That's not the "main problem". The main problem is that it's been incorrectly deinterlaced -- no fix for that, sorry. Half of the original fields were discarded; not the way to do it. Another problem is that the video isn't really standard "VCD", it's just an off-size generic MPEG1. Not much one could do with it.

    VCD specs (PAL and NTSC)
    Isn't that what the old capture cards used to do when you captured mpeg from VHS - throw away one of the fields?
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    Not any capture card I ever used. The better "old" cards are hard to find and carry a premium price nowadays, often costing more than the $250 or more of their original price.

    If you have an original 640x480 capture from VHS that you mentioned, that's what you should be working with. Don't deinterlace by discarding interlaced fields. There's are proper ways to do it. If VCD from a 640x480 original is what you want, work with lossless AVI format, deinterlace properly, denoise properly, then resize to 352x240 and re-encode for 4:3 display aspect ratio.
    Last edited by sanlyn; 21st Mar 2014 at 09:57.
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  15. Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    If you have an original 640x480 capture from VHS that you mentioned, that's what you should be working with.
    My guess is he has nothing of the sort, but a bunch of downloaded crap that he wants to miraculously turn into something good. And at the same time cutting the bitrate in half!
    Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    I have got a bunch of mpgs that contain videos gotten from VHS in 640x480 25f/s at approximately 2000b/s.
    Nowhere does he say he capped or even reencoded anything himself. If the 'source' really was a 640x480 interlaced cap, someone else ruined it before making it available.
    Last edited by manono; 12th Sep 2013 at 18:24.
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    Originally Posted by sanlyn View Post
    Not any capture card I ever used. The better "old" cards are hard to find and carry a premium price nowadays, often costing more than the $250 or more of their original price.

    If you have an original 640x480 capture from VHS that you mentioned, that's what you should be working with. Don't deinterlace by discarding interlaced fields. There's are proper ways to do it. If VCD from a 640x480 original is what you want, work with lossless AVI format, deinterlace properly, denoise properly, then resize to 352x240 and re-encode for 4:3 display aspect ratio.
    Perhaps you're right...

    I could have sworn my old Radeon Vivo (7200) from 12 or 13 years ago did this.
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  17. I've seen a lot of old capture cards that simply discarded a field when recording quarter D1.

    If the OP really want's to start with that source something like this is a start:

    Code:
    Mpeg2Source("Old movie.d2v", CPU=6, Info=3) 
    Crop(0,0,-0,-4)
    MergeChroma(McTemporalDenoise(settings="medium"), McTemporalDenoise(settings="very high"))
    Santiag()
    Sharpen(0.5,0.2)
    nnedi3_rpow2(2, cshift="LanczosResize")
    Sharpen(0.3,0.2)
    Then encode with x264 at a low bitrate (or high CRF like 24). Some color adjustments are probably called for but I didn't address that. And this amount of filtering may be too strong for other shots -- things like human faces may lose a lot of detail. In the end, I don't know that this really improves the viewing experience.
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    Last edited by jagabo; 12th Sep 2013 at 20:22.
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    >My guess is he has nothing of the sort, but a bunch of downloaded crap that he wants to miraculously turn into >something good. And at the same time cutting the bitrate in half!

    Haha, that's a great tone while trying to help.
    But in essence you are right. This is what I got, however I don't think I could miraculously turn it into something good. Would be great if that would be possible of course.

    I do like to improve the video while cutting the bitrate for as much as it is possible.
    Small note, I play that in my media player that do not support 264. So the output can be generally anything but 264.

    On a side note, I think I got to change my media player too to something more modern, very lightweight and on-the-go. But I'm currently residing in Laos and I didn't see anything like that yet.
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    Jagabo: Thank you, that looks much better. Where do I enter this code in order to process the whole movie?
    Sorry if this question sounds silly, but this is a Newbie area, and I guess I'm a newbie.

    I have also never used avisynth though I'm willing to learn. If the same result can be obtained by using of another software, I got VirtualDub, and my favorite Mpeg Video Wizard 5.0 (Womble).
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  20. Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    Jagabo: Thank you, that looks much better. Where do I enter this code in order to process the whole movie?
    AviSynth, getting started: http://avisynth.nl/index.php/Main_Page#New_to_AviSynth_-_start_here
    DgMpegDec: http://neuron2.net/dgmpgdec/dgmpgdec.html
    Encode with any encoder that supports AviSynth scripts as input.
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    "Encode with any encoder that supports AviSynth scripts as input." Sounds like abrakadabra to me, but I guess I'll dig into the manuals.
    Could you please give some generic example? Like open virtualdub, press ctrl+o, select this, than that, enter the script or something along the line? Do I need to install AviSynth prior to that or it will be supported by the encoders that support it and I don't need to download it standalone?

    Thanks
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  22. VirtualDub: File -> Open Video File -> (select AviSynth script instead of AVI file)
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    I assume I have to cut & paste the code you have posted into a file and specify this file in virtualdub by opening a script? What extension should it be?

    And another question, can something like this http://www.download3k.com/MP3-Audio-Video/Video-Utilities-Codecs/Download-YUVsoft-Supe...tion-Demo.html be used in my case? (High quality video upscaling using a unique fast super resolution technology. Information from several video frames is used to greatly enhance quality of a high resolution image in comparison to common image resizing techniques...)
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  24. Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    I assume I have to cut & paste the code you have posted into a file and specify this file in virtualdub by opening a script? What extension should it be?
    The extension should be .AVS. You will need to download and install a bunch more filters to run the script I posted. McTemporalDenoise and the filters it relies on, Santiag, and nnedi3.

    http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/MCTemporalDenoise
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1393006#post1393006
    http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1419815
    http://web.missouri.edu/~kes25c/

    Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    And another question, can something like this http://www.download3k.com/MP3-Audio-Video/Video-Utilities-Codecs/Download-YUVsoft-Supe...tion-Demo.html be used in my case? (High quality video upscaling using a unique fast super resolution technology. Information from several video frames is used to greatly enhance quality of a high resolution image in comparison to common image resizing techniques...)
    You can try it. In my experience such software delivers a lot less than they promise.
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    Do you have a free time to try it please? Your opinion about the actual result would be much appreciated.

    And, could you please answer this thread? https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/359596-Correlation
    It's unrelated, but I feel you might possess the expertise to answer, if that's possible at all.

    Thank you
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  26. Originally Posted by blackion View Post
    Do you have a free time to try it please?
    No, I don't want to install programs I don't need.
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