1080p HD Night Vision/Infrared Camcorder?

[Ownaholic]

Hey everybody;

I'm currently looking for a high-quality camcorder that meets the following requirements:
Full (TRUE) 1080p HD
Night Vision / Infrared capabilities in absolute-zero-light situations.

I am starting up a very professional-grade "ghost hunting" group in my local area, and I have all of our other equipment ironed out except for the camera. It's strange, but I haven't seen any camera to match this type of need.
I keep reading about the Sony Handycam series, and yet, I have yet to find a Handycam on either Amazon or eBay that has Night Vision / IR capabilities.

Budget is definitely a factor; however I am open to all options. If at all possible, I would like to stay below $300; although post any +$300 camcorders you find, because I might be able to find used deals on them.

Thanks so much to anyone that can help!

[redwudz]

What you could probably use is an infrared illuminator. Something like this: http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/

Most HD cameras don't do that well for very low light situations. Infrared will also kill most color information, but most cameras should be able to see in the dark with the proper IR illumination. You would also need a battery pack for the illuminatior, but most run on twelve volts DC.

Or if you wanted to build your own: http://lucidscience.wordpress.com/2011/01/24/build-a-simple-ring-light-infrared-illumi...-a-spy-camera/

[Ownaholic]

What you could probably use is an infrared illuminator. Something like this: http://www.supercircuits.com/Infrared-Illuminators/

Most HD cameras don't do that well for very low light situations. Infrared will also kill most color information, but most cameras should be able to see in the dark with the proper IR illumination. You would also need a battery pack for the illuminatior, but most run on twelve volts DC.

Ah; you're a genius!
What do you think about this in conjunction with a Sony Handycam HDR-CX110?
I really like the quality of the CX110, and it seems as though the HVL-HIRL IR produces equally amazing results according to some videos I looked up about it.

I'm fairly new to the concept of Infrared and "Night Vision" in general, so forgive my foolishness; but are you sure this combination would "work"? I had a pre-set idea that the night vision or IR had to be integrated into the camera.

Thanks so much for your response!

*edit*
Or how about that in conjunction with the HDR-CX160/B?

[jagabo]

Many camcorders have IR filters in the lens. Ever since it was found some Sony camcorders were sensitive to IR and could see through clothes under the right conditions.

[Ownaholic]

Many camcorders have IR filters in the lens. Ever since it was found some Sony camcorders were sensitive to IR and could see through clothes under the right conditions.

That's not particularly helpful.

[jagabo]

Many camcorders have IR filters in the lens. Ever since it was found some Sony camcorders were sensitive to IR and could see through clothes under the right conditions.

That's not particularly helpful.

It is if you want to record under infra red lighting.

[Ownaholic]

Many camcorders have IR filters in the lens. Ever since it was found some Sony camcorders were sensitive to IR and could see through clothes under the right conditions.

That's not particularly helpful.

It is if you want to record under infra red lighting.

I'm rather confused, how is being able to see through clothing relevant?

[jagabo]

Infra red radiation can penetrate thin clothing. Sony started installing infra red filters after people started using their cameras to shoot videos of "naked" people -- you can see underwear and other body features through their clothes under infra red lighting. If you get a camera with an IR filter using IR lamps won't be of any help. The camera won't "see' the IR light.

[Ownaholic]

Infra red radiation can penetrate thin clothing. Sony started installing infra red filters after people started using their cameras to shoot videos of "naked" people -- you can see underwear and other body features through their clothes under infra red lighting. If you get a camera with an IR filter using IR lamps won't be of any help. The camera won't "see' the IR light.

Ah, now I understand what you're saying.
Sorry about my misunderstanding!

What do you recommend doing in order to get around this problem?
Would a Sony HDR-CX130 and the Sony HVL-HIRL IR Nightshot work together?
(Does the HDR-CX130 have the filter on it?)

Thanks for your help, again, sorry about that!

[edDV]

The security cameras illuminate the area with (invisible to the perp) IR light and the cameras are tuned to see that frequency of IR.

What is your theory re: ghosts? Do you think they emit IR like an animal or do you think they are blind to IR like a burglar? If you think they emit IR, then look at IR hunting scopes or even those house scanners that detect heat leaks.
http://e.fluke.com/forms/TI-BookOffer-PPC-USEN-Sept11?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc...|mt|b&cpao=111
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/energy_audits/index.cfm/mytopic=11200

[Ownaholic]

The security cameras illuminate the area with (invisible to the perp) IR light and the cameras are tuned to see that frequency of IR.

What is your theory re: ghosts? Do you think they emit IR like an animal or do you think they are blind to IR like a burglar? If you think they emit IR, then look at IR hunting scopes or even those house scanners that detect heat leaks.
http://e.fluke.com/forms/TI-BookOffer-PPC-USEN-Sept11?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campai gn=Scanners/Detectors&utm_adgroup=Scanners+-+Infrared&utm_kw=infrared%20%2Bscanner&utm_matchty peb&utm_networkSearch&site=&utm_bannersize=Text&mk wid=sPvIsRh1i&kw=infrared%20%2Bscanner|pcrid|84079 07545|mt|b&cpao=111
http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/energy_audits/index.cfm/mytopic=11200

I would love to be able to use a Thermal Imaging Camera, but for the time being that is too far out of my budget-range.

What I really would like to know, is whether or not I can use the Sony HDR-CX130 and the Sony HVL-HIRL IR together to produce the results I am looking for.
Or, do I have to upgrade to the HDR-CX560V?

[jagabo]

What I really would like to know, is whether or not I can use the Sony HDR-CX130 and the Sony HVL-HIRL IR together to produce the results I am looking for.

I don't think so:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RWUXYPPMS8DEE/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B004H8FN94&n...tag=&linkCode=

no infra red nightshot... not for paranormal hunters

Another reviewer later on said:

The reason I am returning this is because it does not have night shot. It does give you a low lux option but the lowest it can get to is lux 11. I use a camera for paranormal investigations and have a Phantom Lite, (IR light) and the camera will not even pick it up unless you are pointing the light directly into the camera.

How about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Howell-DNV900HD-Camcorder-Accessory/dp/B00493LFK8

[Ownaholic]

What I really would like to know, is whether or not I can use the Sony HDR-CX130 and the Sony HVL-HIRL IR together to produce the results I am looking for.

I don't think so:

http://www.amazon.com/review/RWUXYPPMS8DEE/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B004H8FN94&n...tag=&linkCode=

no infra red nightshot... not for paranormal hunters

Another reviewer later on said:

The reason I am returning this is because it does not have night shot. It does give you a low lux option but the lowest it can get to is lux 11. I use a camera for paranormal investigations and have a Phantom Lite, (IR light) and the camera will not even pick it up unless you are pointing the light directly into the camera.

How about this?
http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Howell-DNV900HD-Camcorder-Accessory/dp/B00493LFK8

Darn...What do you think about the HDR-CX560V instead?
I know it is *slightly* out of my price range, but it looks like it has everything that I have been looking for; there seem to be a decent amount of videos online using this camera with the exact accessory that I'm considering getting.

As for the Bell-Howell camera; I would love to get that one, but it looks like it performs very poorly. And rather than the typical green IR, it seems to produce an almost black-and-white image. I also have noticed some reviews stating that it is not a good option for "ghost hunting".

Thanks again for your help!

[jagabo]

Darn...What do you think about the HDR-CX560V instead?

From what I've see on Youtube, The CX560V in nightvision mode looks about the same as the B&H camcorder. You can easily turn gray to green (and vice versa) in post.

[Ownaholic]

Darn...What do you think about the HDR-CX560V instead?

From what I've see on Youtube, The CX560V in nightvision mode looks about the same as the B&H camcorder. You can easily turn gray to green (and vice versa) in post.

That's true, I didn't think about post-editing, however I haven't been able to find any videos that show similar quality.

This is the best-quality video I was able to find of the B&H Cam while using its IR.
http://youtu.be/EH1fedOfcJ8
(What's weird is that the video is only in 720p; does that mean the camera is only capable of 720p as opposed to the advertised 1080; or does it mean he simply didn't render in 1080p?)

This is a video of the CX560V with the additional light accessory that I would purchase along with it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IDTicerq8E


Do you think adding an additional IR light to the B&H would produce similar results?

How about this camera; I know it's Full Spectrum instead of IR, but it might be a good camera option for my partner; the SVP T718?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=De-ZGbFCAes

[TreeTops]

I really hate to be a spoil sport here but you are wasting your money if you are really trying to photograph a ghost.

[Ownaholic]

I really hate to be a spoil sport here but you are wasting your money if you are really trying to photograph a ghost.

"Photograph a ghost"? Really?
Not even going to waste my time on you.

[jagabo]

I really hate to be a spoil sport here but you are wasting your money if you are really trying to photograph a ghost.

Of course he won't be able to photograph a ghost or other paranormal phenomena. That doesn't mean he can't make money from other people while he tries to do it!

[edDV]

All a magic show. The IR is the misdirection.

[jagabo]

All a magic show. The IR is the misdirection.

That's why it needs to be green. It's much spookier than grayscale. Grayscale just looks like old TV.

[edDV]

With IR lighting you can make objects appear and disappear.

[Ownaholic]

Well, honestly, that is the reason we are doing this.

We want to see for ourselves whether or not any of it is real, or if it's all just one big hoax. I believe that every television show is a big dramatized pile of crap; with the sole exception of the very first Ghost Adventures documentary.

I plan on using whatever camera I buy for other purposes as well, hence I want high quality regardless of the intent.

So; anybody care to answer my last post before this went off topic?

[edDV]

All about what gets ratings.

Darken room
Switch to IR cam
IR cameraman scans around to confuse audience.
Cue "ghost" to stand under IR light
IR cameraman pans to "ghost"
Bring up the "ghost IR light" + audio effects. eeekk!

[Ownaholic]

All about what gets ratings.

Darken room
Switch to IR cam
IR cameraman scans around to confuse audience.
Cue "ghost" to stand under IR light
IR cameraman pans to "ghost"
Bring up the "ghost IR light" + audio effects. eeekk!

Well...there's actually a lot more to it than that. Most evidence is never visual. The only reason anyone even uses cameras is because there wouldnt be much of a show without them.

[jagabo]

Well...there's actually a lot more to it than that. Most evidence is never visual. The only reason anyone even uses cameras is because there wouldnt be much of a show without them.

Yes, there are things like a bunch of audio static and something that sounds vaguely like a human voice. One of the cast memebers says "It sounded like 'Get out!'" Then another says "You're right, I hear it too!" Kenny on South Park is much clearer -- but suggestion goes a long way. Odd sounds in a creaky old wooden house? Who would have imagined!

[Ownaholic]

Well...there's actually a lot more to it than that. Most evidence is never visual. The only reason anyone even uses cameras is because there wouldnt be much of a show without them.

Yes, there are things like a bunch of audio static and something that sounds vaguely like a human voice. One of the cast memebers says "It sounded like 'Get out!'" Then another says "You're right, I hear it too!" Kenny on South Park is much clearer -- but suggestion goes a long way. Odd sounds in a creaky old wooden house? Who would have imagined!

The thing is the majority of solid EVPs are captured, but not heard by the human ear. If it was simply wood creaking, you would hear it as well.
And not every investigation is taken place inside of an "old wooden house".

[jagabo]

The thing is the majority of solid EVPs are captured, but not heard by the human ear. If it was simply wood creaking, you would hear it as well.

It's more likely they just didn't notice the sounds because they were busy with other stuff at the time, not sitting around listening to the amplified soundtrack over and over again seeking any little anomaly.

And not every investigation is taken place inside of an "old wooden house".

I'm not going to go through every possible settings and debunk their nonsense.

Do you think adding an additional IR light to the B&H would produce similar results?

The more lighting you have the less the camera has to rely on its signal gain function. So you'll get less noise and better range.

http://www.batmanagement.com/Ordering/irlight/irlight.html

[Ownaholic]

The thing is the majority of solid EVPs are captured, but not heard by the human ear. If it was simply wood creaking, you would hear it as well.

It's more likely they just didn't notice the sounds because they were busy with other stuff at the time, not sitting around listening to the amplified soundtrack over and over again seeking any little anomaly.

And not every investigation is taken place inside of an "old wooden house".

I'm not going to go through every possible settings and debunk their nonsense.

Do you think adding an additional IR light to the B&H would produce similar results?

The more lighting you have the less the camera has to rely on its signal gain function. So you'll get less noise and better range.

http://www.batmanagement.com/Ordering/irlight/irlight.html

Haha well, for what it's worth, I appreciate that you are still willing to help even though we disagree on the topic of why I'll be using them!

Do you have any recommendations for getting higher-quality personal audio?
Should I just get a separate digital recorder and plug in a lapel mic?

Thanks for your help. =]

[edDV]

wireless mics keep in sync

[jagabo]

And the usual advice: get the mic as close to the sound source as you can.