are camcorders as good as advc-100

[mrmom]

I want to start converting vhs and posibly super 8s with camcorder. I'm thinking of the sony dv 100 or 300 with the mini dvd's for media. They're supposed to have passthrew tec. But I'm not sure if the camcorder will do as good a job caturing as what I gather from reading is the best capture device for the money the advc-100 or what file format sony uses to save there media and if it's compatible with my next problem what editing software to use. I got mydvd and showbiz with my burner. I would appreciate your opinion or advice I've read most of the related topics and believe the advc-100 is the best choice but I had a couple of posts that said you could use a camcorder and I want to get started but can't make up my mind. I've got the money for both but don't want to waste it.
Thank you in advance.

[drewson99]

i used to use an advc 100 but now I use a sony camcorder. I notice no difference in quality, and the timebase corrector in the camcorder has been great for long caps with audio sync, so that functionality is intact too.

The only thing to make sure of is that some camcorders with pass through only have s-video out, forcing you to use yellow composite in. Make sure the s-video is both in and out before buying if you want to do analog pass-through, it is way superior to the yellow composite.

Andy

[mrmom]

Thanks for your reply I'm like on the edge of my seat trying to decide what to buy. I've spent the last four days and nights reading posts in this forum. I was looking at the two sony's that burn to the 3.5 dvd's they said they had video and audio in/out. Looking it over I did see an s-video connector with a small yellow jack and in another area what looked like a firewire or usb. I'm not sure what yellow composite is. I couldn't see how I was going to hook up my vcr and the kid running the video dept had no idea what I was talking about (circut city). I'm not sure any of my vcr's have s-video.

Thanks alot Andy

[redwudz]

I use the ADVC-100 and it works well, but I am guessing a camcorder would output the same DV quality, of course depending on the camcorder. I really have little use for a camcorder, that's why I chose the ADVC. However, if you have uses for the camcorder, it may be the better choice. The ADVC has macrovision removal, but that's not a great reason to purchase it. I have quite a bit of old VHS tapes to convert, that's what I got the ADVC for. In your case, a camcorder may serve you better, and in the future, you could always add a box like the ADVC.

[joecav]

I struggled with this for a while because my cap card was giving me trouble. I now convert my VHS tapes using my Sony TRV-33's passthrough capability. It doesn't have s-video in, but the quality (picture and sync) have been superb. I havent dropped but a frame or two over hours and hours of video transfer. I use the cam as a cam and a passthrough device so it suites my needs just fine. You have to make a decision if you are going to use/need a camera like this and will it justify the added expense. I believe the TRV-33 is $600. The canopus ADVC-100 is like $250, but the Datavideo DAC-100 is like $190. They're pretty similar products. Check them in the tools section.
Good luck

_joecav

[DaveS]

I tried the passthru on my canon elura 40mc (which I really like) but then got the advc 100. I thought the advc100 did a slightly better job (but don't have any screen shots to show). The camcorder wasn't bad though. If you are getting the camcorder anyway, it sounds like the models you are thinking of have the passthru..why not select your camcorder as you would, then if the passthru is of decent quality for you then you don't have to spend any addt'l $$ on the advc100 (e.g. get the camcorder & try the passthru).

[drewson99]

the yellow in is the plain old yellow video cable that most tvs/vcrs use, but these days s-video is used sometimes. it is just nice to have the option. I would go woth the camcorder as long as all the ports are both in/out.

Andy

[proxyx99]

If your video is Hi8 or digital, svideo is good (420 lines). Video8 and VHS give only 240 so "yellow" composite may be used without a major impact.
Svideo will give you generally better performance provided that your source and all other devices in a "chain" use same type of input/output.
If you use yellow output on a VCR then putting it through svideo cable will not impact (or better, improve) video quality.

[mrmom]

Thanks to all who replyed. I'm laid up with a fractured ankle and got 10 weeks to go with the computer to keep me busy. I will learn to capture edit produce and burn good dvds.

I think I'm going to get the sony dv300 that saves to 3.5 dvd I will post my results.

Thanks again :P

[bugster]

I think I'm going to get the sony dv300 that saves to 3.5 dvd I will post my results.

Thanks again :P

Think and research this carefully. I am not sure about this but don't cameras that record to these mini DVD disks use mpeg compression to do so. If they do that is not really what you want as your quality will be limited by the onboard codec. Go for a camera that does mini DV (DV is the format output by the ADVC-100) and make sure it supports analog to digital pass through before you lay down your hard earned.

[mrmom]

I talkeded to Sony and they clam no matter which cam I get even the ones that save to mini dvd's that the capture program on my cpu determines what format the passthrew data is captured at. Only problem might be the new video's I take those will be saved on the disk as mpeg's. But he claims you can edit mpeg I don't trust them it took three people before I got someone who even understood what passthrew or file format meant.

[BSR]

Yes you can capture to the computer any format you want.
And yes you can edit MPEG on your computer
But filming video to a mini DVD disk(MPEG) will be lower quality than recording video to a mini DV Tape(DV).
So there you have already limited your best quality to the codec of the Mini DVD camcorder (analog to MPEG conversion).

1hour miniDV = 13gig
1hour miniDVD = 2.5gig (depending on settings available)

[DaveS]

I talkeded to Sony and they clam no matter which cam I get even the ones that save to mini dvd's that the capture program on my cpu determines what format the passthrew data is captured at. Only problem might be the new video's I take those will be saved on the disk as mpeg's. But he claims you can edit mpeg I don't trust them it took three people before I got someone who even understood what passthrew or file format meant.

mrmom - there are 2 things happening - first - when you save to a mini dvd, it is saving on mpeg2. you can edit it in some programs but it's not ideal - cutting and joining is ok, but anything more can be rough. the mpeg 2 is best as a playback or delivery format.

separately, and second, when you use firewire to pass video to your PC it will be in AVI format and the codec on your PC which your capture s/w uses *will* determine the format, either mjpeg, DV, etc.

I would assume this (point 2) to be true whether you are passing through analog through your camcorder to the firewire or whether you are playing back a mini DV you created. I have not heard of passing mpeg through firewire but I supposed it could be possible ( I would expect it to be DV format, eg. for an AVI file). You could check the sony documentation online I would think...

[bugster]

separately, and second, when you use firewire to pass video to your PC it will be in AVI format and the codec on your PC which your capture s/w uses *will* determine the format, either mjpeg, DV, etc.

You don't 'capture' DV via firewire in the traditional sense (as in capture of analog material). It is in fact simply a data transfer. It is possible to encode the material to some other format at the same time as capturing (on the fly encodeing) but this usually results in sub par quality and can limit your options when it comes to editing and especially re-encoding (e.g. to (S)VCD or DVD format).

Capture DV avi format, edit, encode, author, burn is the best solution for top quality and maximum flexibility.

[DaveS]

You don't 'capture' DV via firewire in the traditional sense (as in capture of analog material). It is in fact simply a data transfer. It is possible to encode the material to some other format at the same time as capturing (on the fly encodeing) but this usually results in sub par quality and can limit your options when it comes to editing and especially re-encoding (e.g. to (S)VCD or DVD format).

Capture DV avi format, edit, encode, author, burn is the best solution for top quality and maximum flexibility.

yes...all I was really saying was that there are two different concepts that were getting (incorrectly imo) combined - one is the camcorder saving to the mini DVD in mpeg2 and the other is capturing from the camcorder via firewire (passthrough of analog source or from the mini dvd) which would be DV AVI, which I think is what the sony rep would have been saying.

[proxyx99]

THe only reason I guess for Sony to incorporate miniDVD is to match Hitach cams. That's all. Thers is no future in this format as storage capacity of 8mm tape or miniDV is way higher (equivalent to 13 GB of dv AVI on a 60 min. miniDV tape, where miniDvd disk will be at 1/4 of capacity at best). Writing to MPEG2 sucks (prolly ~6 Mbps CBR).
Now what you do? Rip DVD to HD. Reencode Vob to Mpeg, reedit, reencode, burn DVD. Real time saver. Plus 90% of users do not even have a clue about what we are talking about. So imagine their dismay if they want to become more accomplished editors and use their PC...?
I think Tape is the king in cams for now. Then solid state memory (all we need is ~15 GIG capacity for DVAvi). That's coming. No moving parts.
Service dept. people laid off. End of story.

[bugster]

yes...all I was really saying was that there are two different concepts that were getting (incorrectly imo) combined - one is the camcorder saving to the mini DVD in mpeg2 and the other is capturing from the camcorder via firewire (passthrough of analog source or from the mini dvd) which would be DV AVI, which I think is what the sony rep would have been saying.

Hmmm, I think I was trying to say the same thing but also questioning (really, I don't know the answer to this) what format 'passthrough' do you get from one of these mini DVD cams. It may well be DV but why should it be. The cam has an mpeg encoder on board, not a DV encoder, so is the passthrough data in mpeg? It could be as firewire is simply a data transport. Does anybody know what it is for sure? Anybody have one of these cams that has used this feature?

Just curious really as I havn't thought about this before.

[mrmom]

Well I jumped off the fence. I read another post this morning about the pyro A/v link going for $110 at circut city I guess for some reason their clearing them out I got the last one here. And I couldn't resist the camcorder I got the trv-33 also. The only thing I'm not sure about is the adaptec fireconnect 4300 I hope it works ok I liked the fact it has three ports. cc also has a special if you spend 200 ya get another 10% off. Well time to go to work converting those vhs tapes.

Thanks everyone

Dave from Pa.

[mrmom]

Well I think camcorders are great I bought the sonys trv-33 along with the ads pyro a/v link. The camcorder wins hands down. I captured video from my vcr with know problem at all into the cam out threw firewire to pc no lost frames video looks alittle dark but hopfully I'll figure how to use one of the softwares to brighten up.

the av link droped frames like crazy some say I need a stabilizer after the vcr to help the converter that vhs is hard to capture but the camcorder didn/t have any problem.

I was also able to copy some 8mm off a movie screen with the trv-33 did a pretty good job except for a little fliker I'll have play with the expose settings.

Thanks to all

[proxyx99]

Video always look darker on PC monitor. Try finishing your project and put it on a DVD. Then check out TV playback from stanalone.
DV capture is digital no need for it to lose luminance all of the sudden.