Connect a Sony Trinitron tube tv to an HDMI bluray/dvd player

[mazinz]

Another dead end unfortunately. The link must be one of those that never gets updated.

Thanks for answering. If one of those patch boxes is no good (and they don't even sell well) then I'll just have wait out the CRT's demise-- or run a Bluray burner as playback.

did you check ebay? This one

Samsung Bd-C5500 is all over ebay and pretty cheap too:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.XS...C5500&_sacat=0

Also for (assuming higher or next model) your original want the Samsung BD C6500
found this listing for at least one also on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-BD-C6500-Blu-Ray-Player-with-Remote-NICE-Free-Shipping...item33a2215812

and by patch box if you mean the HDMI2 RCA converter on Amazon that is still up (or do the hdmi2rca search and it will bring up a few)
http://www.amazon.com/Portta-3RCA-Composite-AV-Mini-Converter-Blue-Ray-DVD-Colors/dp/B...ds=hdmi+to+rca

also found this higher priced one, though with no reviews- that also has hdmi as well as rca output
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SL1RBHU?psc=1

[loninappleton]

Thanks for leads. My first look at the Samsungs or even knowing about it was yesterday
so I stopped by the named store for a look.

I'll see what's going on with the bay for a closer look-- and checking the manuals to make sure it has all the connects.

Converter boxes the cost of a whole player I'd avoid on cost alone.

[jjeff]

As others have alluded to I'd avoid converting HDMI to composite, the quality of units I've tested(up to ~$100) is quite poor. Now on your Trinitron you may not(but may) notice the loss of resolution(comparing to a native composite output) but you WILL notice the lack of contrast and brightness. IMO such converters are a very last resort, or for people that have no taste in quality video. Again as others have pointed out you may also run into HDCP issues although most of the cheap(<$100) such converters I tried just ignored any CP and would let me record the output if I so desired(which I didn't since the quality was so poor).
No if you want composite I'd just look for a older like new BD player that already has it. All my players have at least composite and even a couple have S-video for even slightly better picture quality. I've tried several different brands of BD players and IMO for the best SD output(and a reasonable price) look for a Panasonic or Pioneer, I wasn't impressed at all with newer(x60 series and newer) Sony BD players, IMO their SD output(composite) was noticeably inferior to Panasonic or Pioneers composite output. The older pre x50 series Sonys looked better but lacked some of the features found on the Panasonics I liked.
Not sure what city you live in since your profile doesn't say but if it's a city of reasonable size you should have pawn or second hand shops that have quite a few older BD players with composite output, at least my city does, although not as frequently as a year or two ago.
I'd avoid no name BD players, I tried a few back in the day and even though they may look OK playing a BD via HDMI output they really lacked playing a DVD(via composite or even HDMI) they were basically junk for SD IMO.

I also used to love my Trinitrons but have since moved onto good quality LCDs and haven't looked back, although I did keep a basically like new 24" Sony Wega flat screen CRT with component inputs that I purchased new for ~$500. It sits on a shelf not being used in my basement, not really sure why I'm hold onto it but I am......my other Sonys were either sold or scrapped out. My LCDs are either Sony or Panasonic with a couple Vizios for less discerning areas.

[loninappleton]

Pawn shops and the brand recommendations are good tips.

I will post my questions on a BD burner for playback in a separate thread.

[jjeff]

Stopped by a local pawn shop(larger chain in my town, Pawn America) during lunch and they had several BD players under $50 with composite and several with component outputs(one even S-video) and they were:

Sharp
Sony(newer 560 which again IMO has noticably poorer SD output than older models)
Pioneer(what a TANK! this is the one with S-video out and also discrete audio outputs) but was overpriced IMO at $99 for such a old tank
Panasonic
Samsung

IMO the Panasonic was probably the best deal, no component outputs but was fairly thin, the Sony was even thinner and also lacked components. No experience with Sharp(it said Aquious??) or Samsung and the Pioneer was very large and probably one of the first generations of BD players. I've seen similar tank Sonys(model 300 I think??) also with discrete audio outputs and S-video but personally I'd be worried about something so old and more than likely they would be SLOW as molasses. If your not familiar with the first generations of BD players they were ridiculously slow, I mean a minute or more to turn on and 5 or more minutes to load your BD, as the generations went on they got thinner and much faster. IMO the best generations were ~'10 when they got the first generation quirks taken care of but before they started cheapening them up too much. I also think much after '10 and DVD playing was purely an afterthought, before that they wanted DVDs to look good since most people already had a good collection of DVDs and were probably comparing the output to the quality DVD players of the time.
Good luck on your quest.

[mazinz]

JJEFF wrote
but you WILL notice the lack of contrast and brightness. IMO such converters are a very last resort, or for people that have no taste in quality video

.

Funy is that I did not see any loss of contrast or brightness. I too am on an analog set. Sounds more like an issue with something not going right on your end. I have both bluplayers with hdmi only that would need this converter as well as decks with rca and when going between the two, I saw very little (if any) difference in that picture, but nothing different in terms of contrast or brightness. When the correct output resolution was set and having the device in sync with it, played and looked pretty much the same as it did via rca out

you also did not mention what type of set you tested it on. Going by your words if you just tested it out on LCD that may be your problem and why you saw the loss in contrast and brightness or possibly lesser quality than normal, cause it was fine on analog

Though I also do agree with you in that loninappleton best option would be to get a bluplayer with the composite jacks on the back of the deck.

[mazinz]

dupe post, please delete

[jjeff]

Yes I did all my testing on a 1080p LCD so any flaws were magnified. I believe the whole contrast brightness problem has to do with the IRE mismatch. HDMI(and component) output is 0 IRE for N. America and the rest of the world. Unfortunately black level for N. America SD is +7.5 IRE which goes back since the beginning of TV, the rest of the world is 0 IRE for SD. It's my guess that these HDMI(and component) to composite(and S-video) converters(the cheaper ones for sure) are designed and build overseas where the IRE is 0. Using them in N. America results in a IRE mismatch unless this is taken into account, which I believe it is not. Expensive converters like HD Fury do take this into account but I believe they are the exception rather than the norm.

[mazinz]

Yes I did all my testing on a 1080p LCD so any flaws were magnified. I believe the whole contrast brightness problem has to do with the IRE mismatch. HDMI(and component) output is 0 IRE for N. America and the rest of the world. Unfortunately black level for N. America SD is +7.5 IRE which goes back since the beginning of TV, the rest of the world is 0 IRE for SD. It's my guess that these HDMI(and component) to composite(and S-video) converters(the cheaper ones for sure) are designed and build overseas where the IRE is 0. Using them in N. America results in a IRE mismatch unless this is taken into account, which I believe it is not. Expensive converters like HD Fury do take this into account but I believe they are the exception rather than the norm.

Sort of like introducing its own black level bug without it exactly being a black level bug.
Curious did you have the test with the bluplayers at default for HDMI or did you have the what is termed "deep color" activated? On my end I had everything disabled. I am using a 27" Mitsubishi (Cs-27407) crt from 96 and as previously mentioned I was definitely not getting the fluctuation in brightness/contrast between one deck using the converter device (yes one of the very cheaper models) and another deck using the rca jacks. Overall the quality between the two was very close (then again that may be attributed to actually playing it on an analog set which was always more forgiving)

[newpball]

Unfortunately black level for N. America SD is +7.5 IRE which goes back since the beginning of TV, the rest of the world is 0 IRE for SD.

Careful now, only true brilliant engineers will be able to understand how extremely important 7.5 IRE really is, the rest of the world simply has no true brilliant engineers, and if someone disagrees he must obviously not be a true brilliant engineer!

7.5 IRE, TV levels, gamma fiddling, the Rec 601/709 zoo, interlaced video, chroma sub-sampling all completely necessary and advanced technology for the 21th century.

.....

[smrpix]

7.5 IRE, TV levels, gamma fiddling, the Rec 601/709 zoo, interlaced video, chroma sub-sampling all completely necessary and advanced technology for the 21th century.

No, it was technology for the 20th century. And no engineer is stupid enough to bother re-inventing SD video at this stage of the game.

[usually_quiet]

Overall the quality between the two was very close (then again that may be attributed to actually playing it on an analog set which was always more forgiving)

Not at my house, If the black level setting was incorrect on my DVD recorder it was obvious even with a CRT TV. The picture was too dark and the lack of detail in dark areas was very apparent

[mazinz]

Overall the quality between the two was very close (then again that may be attributed to actually playing it on an analog set which was always more forgiving)

Not at my house, If the black level setting was incorrect on my DVD recorder it was obvious even with a CRT TV. The picture was too dark and the lack of detail in dark areas was very apparent

Of course that is correct (like playing something made with an older panasonic dvd recorder deck for example) but my point was that I was not getting these differences using one of those hdmi2rca converter jacks that JJeff was seeing trying whatever ones he tested on his tv set. The picture in terms of bright and contrast stayed the same with a deck using the device and a deck using rca, that is why I had asked what type of tv set he used for the test

[usually_quiet]

Overall the quality between the two was very close (then again that may be attributed to actually playing it on an analog set which was always more forgiving)

Not at my house, If the black level setting was incorrect on my DVD recorder it was obvious even with a CRT TV. The picture was too dark and the lack of detail in dark areas was very apparent

Of course that is correct (like playing something made with an older panasonic dvd recorder deck for example) but my point was that I was not getting these differences using one of those hdmi2rca converter jacks that JJeff was seeing trying whatever ones he tested on his tv set. The picture in terms of bright and contrast stayed the same with a deck using the device and a deck using rca, that is why I had asked what type of tv set he used for the test

My point is that if the black level is wrong in video received via composite, it doesn't matter if the TV is analog or an LCD. The problem will still be easy enough to spot.

[mazinz]

Overall the quality between the two was very close (then again that may be attributed to actually playing it on an analog set which was always more forgiving)

Not at my house, If the black level setting was incorrect on my DVD recorder it was obvious even with a CRT TV. The picture was too dark and the lack of detail in dark areas was very apparent

Of course that is correct (like playing something made with an older panasonic dvd recorder deck for example) but my point was that I was not getting these differences using one of those hdmi2rca converter jacks that JJeff was seeing trying whatever ones he tested on his tv set. The picture in terms of bright and contrast stayed the same with a deck using the device and a deck using rca, that is why I had asked what type of tv set he used for the test

My point is that if the black level is wrong in video received via composite, it doesn't matter if the TV is analog or an LCD. The problem will still be easy enough to spot.

Yes that is true also. He was suggesting the devices having the wrong setting. The cheapie one I am using does not have the black level problem. It would have been one of the first things I would notice and then look into. In another reply I did make mention of the HDMI "true color" setting. Perhaps this also changes the ire output level on the bluray player? If so that might be another possible reason why he saw the issues with contrast and brightness. However his original reason about the ire setting is valid also, but as mentioned that does not seem to be affecting my device.

A lot of the makers of these are all fly by night (and overall sketchy) with a few different companies all making the same thing seemingly under the same company name. So if some were made with the correct setting used in the US this would also explain why I was not seeing what he saw

[jjeff]

I don't believe my BD player has such a setting, if it does I didn't try it. My DVD players all have the DARKER or international 0 IRE black level output option but it doesn't effect the HDMI output since HDMI(and component) are 0 IRE worldwide and there would be no sense to make them darker or lighter. Also we'd really need a LIGHTER setting to brighten the composite output as I believe the problem arises because the converters are converting the 0 IRE HDMI to composite and for N. America they would need to raise the black level composite to +7.5 IRE, mine didn't have such a setting and I've never seen a player with a LIGHTER setting, only DARKER. I guess Pioneer players all have brightness settings but it raises the overall brightness and not just the bottom end from 0 to +7.5 IRE.
I'm glad you had luck with your HDMI to composite converter, I sure didn't and its just sitting on a shelf not being used. Again it would work for a CP filter but I have better filters that don't effect the black level so much.
As someone else said, since composite is basically going away I doubt any companies will be willing to put forth much effort to correct things.

[84lion]

Amazon has refurb Panasonic DMP-BDT215s for about $75 shipped. This unit has a composite video output but not component video.