Windows XP to be retired in 2008

[JohnnyMalaria]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6551429.stm

Microsoft has confirmed that from 31 January 2008 large PC makers, such as Dell, HP and Toshiba, will no longer be able to buy licences for [Windows XP] so they can install it on new machines.

Note, the other way to spin this is that XP *is* still available in preference to Vista.

[Bullworth]

So does this mean no SP3 for XP or do they still plan to release it at the end of the year? I'm gonna hold out as long as I can. Vista is just too expensive and really doesn't provide much.

[rijir2001]

So does this mean no SP3 for XP or do they still plan to release it at the end of the year? I'm gonna hold out as long as I can. Vista is just too expensive and really doesn't provide much.

I'm sure there will be a SP3. And it will probably be so full of bugs and issues to conviently make everyone pursue purchasing Vista to get there system running well again.

[JohnnyMalaria]

Historically, MS make new service packs available even after the formal retirement of the OS.

[pfh]

On the other hand I'm not that sure about any SP3 surfacing as I read recently that with Vista there will be no SP's, only incremental updates. The way I'm reading between the lines right now suggests MS wants to remove as much user update intervention and decision making as possible. At least with Vista. I don't know maybe it's just me, but I feel as though Vista is being pushed on us much more indirectly and somewhat underhanded then previous versions.

[MOVIEGEEK]

You will still be able to purchase XP for years(~5) to come it just won't come preinstalled on factory PC's.
This really is nothing shocking because if you look at the new PC's for sale they all have Vista installed.

[JohnnyMalaria]

I read recently that with Vista there will be no SP's, only incremental updates.

I think you may have misinterpreted that (or the author of the information may have) - Microsoft has stated that there will be more emphasis on incremental updates/hotfixes etc etc for Vista but SPs will still be provided. Traditionally, a service pack is just all the preceding hotfixes etc rolled into one (plus some new API functions).

Vista SP1 is codename "Fiji".

A Google on "vista sp1" - without the quotes - leads to some interesting reading.

e.g., http://www.darkreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=115546&WT.svl=cmpnews1_1

Windows Vista Service Pack 1 "will be a standard service pack that will include security updates, hotfixes, as well as limited other changes focused on improving quality," according to the letter, which Microsoft sent to customers enrolled in its Technology Adoption Program.

The letter said Microsoft wants feedback on Vista SP1 from program members "to help us prepare for its release in the second half of CY07."

[MOVIEGEEK]

Here's more on XP SP3:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx

[BJ_M]

a lot of large corporations are still running win2k and xp -- and have NO reason to switch because of the massive cost to do so ... the cost to switch 2000, 5000, 10,000+ users is an expense (and manpower drain) tha just will not happen ... nor is there any compiling reason TO switch -- for business (and just about everything else) , win2k and XP work perfectly well ...

i think i read somewhere it costs about a $1000 to switch a user to another OS (labour + cost of upgrading apps + OS Lic + plus addition support during learning curve) -- which doesnt including theh cost of updating hardware (in the case of vista - which is a hog to run)..

[JohnnyMalaria]

a lot of large corporations are still running win2k and xp -- and have NO reason to switch because of the massive cost to do so ... the cost to switch 2000, 5000, 10,000+ users is an expense (and manpower drain) tha just will not happen

Absolutely. In my other life, I work for a 100,000+ employee corporation. The OS progression has been (Windows) 3.11, NT4, XP SP1, XP SP2. (SP2 only got rolled out last year). A few Win2K and 95s popped up here and there on an as-needed basis.

[TwistedLincoln]

On my one remaining machine that still has Windows, I use Windows 2000. No Product Activation for me...

Another interesting note regarding OEMs and XP, it would seem that at least some OEMs are not providing drivers for 2000/XP for the machines that they're loading Vista onto -- leaving you unable to wipe Vista off and put XP or 2000 on.

Which is a large problem for companies needing to replace machines that run software that doesn't work on Vista.

[kicko]

not to mention that for example my company uses so many different programs, some written 10-20 years ago. We just installed XP last year after serious testing to make sure things would work right. It cost money to upgrade and also you runs the risk of total compability.

[BJ_M]

on my HP laptop that i replaced vista w/ XP -- the HP USA site did not have XP drivers - but the Europe sites had them all for the same machine ...


the title of this thread is a bit misleading -- XP is not nessessarly being retired - just no more OEM lic 's ... though IF the big OEMs pressure M$ ... IF they have large corp clients that will not switch .. i'm sure M$ would rethink its strategy or lose out to a competing OS OR recycle existing win2k / XP lic's

[pfh]

Good point BJ.

Johnny- I must have misread the post i saw because I couldn't believe it myself.

[oldandinthe way]

The major impact will be on the chinese market.

In order to have lower product cost Dell and other manufacturers have chosen to continue to sell XP on their low end China-only machines.

This is protection by Microsoft against a vast increase in its XP base.

Secondary effects could be negative for Intel and AMD if other computer makers follow the HP lead in suing VIA processors for their low-end Chinese machines to help offset the higher costs associated with Vista.

[AlecWest]

I've read an article where Microsoft itself said that support will continue for XP for at least 7 years. While "in-the-box" Vista software is selling reasonably well in the business world, it is NOT selling that well to the home market. The Vista installations Microsoft crows about count pre-installed versions of Vista on computers, some of which are still unsold computers.

I think this is less of a "retirement" as it is a "semi-retirement." Developers are still writing new software for XP ... some still writing new software that is compatible back to 98SE. And as long as support continues for XP from Microsoft, that won't change. But, Microsoft is attempting to send a message to the public in general ... that it's time to (ahem) move on, whether they want to or not. And, as time goes by, that message will be louder and louder until people really do move on ... or the market for Vista stagnates, causing Microsoft to rethink its options.

Edit - BTW, I seem to recall that Microsoft "extended" the support deadline for Win98SE beyond what they originally projected. It could be that this 7-year cutoff for WinXP is an original projection that itself will be extended. Time will tell...

[AlecWest]

on my HP laptop that i replaced vista w/ XP -- the HP USA site did not have XP drivers - but the Europe sites had them all for the same machine ...

Huh??? I just downloaded a whole slew of XP drivers from HP USA's site for my own Pavillion laptop. Here's the page I downloaded them from:

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3304185&lang=en

My Pavillion model is dv8408. What's yours?

[BJ_M]

mine is a DV9205ca .. only Vista drivers on the USA/CA version site for it - unless you pick some other location .. it was no big deal really to find them (this time) ..

the USA xp drivers listed below are missing a huge amount that are found on the EC version -- see the diff:

USA and Canada version of XP drivers:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3353659&lang=en


Europe model version of XP drivers:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/softwareList?os=228&lc=en&cc=us&dlc=en&product=3352207&lang=en

[BJ_M]

the stupid mouse driver is 30meg - so it seems -- i never installed it anyway as not required ...

[AlecWest]

I wonder if there are any "physical" differences between the 9205ca and 9205eu notebooks. But, I see what you mean ... the "eu" driver list is much longer.

P.S. BTW, the drivers I downloaded ... coupled with the utility software I wanted to install after WinXP almost filled an entire CD (ulp). Sooner or later, I'll have to start using DVDs for driver/utility backups, hehe.

[BJ_M]

the 9205eu site lists a driver for a built in tuner - which i dont have (that i know of)

the hibernate function does not work with the 9205eu drivers on XP - though that might be something I did , i dont use it , so no big deal ..

everything else is the same

[AlecWest]

On the other hand I'm not that sure about any SP3 surfacing as I read recently that with Vista there will be no SP's, only incremental updates.

Anything's possible. But Microsoft's own page on Service Packs suggests that SP3 is currently planned for both an XP Home & XP Pro release next year:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/servicepacks.mspx

And on Vista having "incremental updates" vs. "service packs" ... well (grin), a rose by any other name. My company no longer has a "Personnel" office. It's called "Human Resources." Odd, but the office seems to look the same and do the same things. 8)

[JohnnyMalaria]

dv9205eu - European Union
dv9205ca - Canada (do the drivers etc have to be bilingual?)
dv9205us - US
dv9205tx - Texas??????!!!!!!

[AlecWest]

dv9205eu - European Union
dv9205ca - Canada (do the drivers etc have to be bilingual?)
dv9205us - US
dv9205tx - Texas??????!!!!!!

Just for giggles, I searched for a European Union version of my notebook. Nope, only a US version.

[ahhaa]

... Microsoft itself said that support will continue for XP for at least 7 years.

Well, it is now 7 years since ME came out; what shape is the support for that in these days?

I have heard that the huge overhead of daily patches for XP's Swiss cheese security problems is the major concern of stockholders- and that XP will be retired asap for that reason and to impliment the anti-counterfeit OS controls as strongly as possible, because that also is really reflected in the bottom line.

Oddly, linux as a competitor OS no longer seems to scare M$ very much...

[jagabo]

the title of this thread is a bit misleading -- XP is not nessessarly being retired - just no more OEM lic 's

I've read there would be no more retail XP either.

[AlecWest]

I have heard that the huge overhead of daily patches for XP's Swiss cheese security problems is the major concern of stockholders- and that XP will be retired asap for that reason and to impliment the anti-counterfeit OS controls as strongly as possible, because that also is really reflected in the bottom line.

Security problems have plagued Microsoft OS versions since Windows 3.1. There were security issues with Windows 95, 98, ME, NT, and 2000. And now there are security issues with XP. Given Microsoft's track record on security, what makes stockholders think that Vista will fare any better in the security department?

Security-wise, when a better mousetrap is built, the mice just get smarter. Example:

https://forum.videohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=327201

Also ...

Well, it is now 7 years since ME came out; what shape is the support for that in these days?

ME, to most people, was considered to be Windows 98 Third Edition - just an extended version of Win98SE that didn't add any significant bells and whistles to it ... which not so oddly is what many tech writers are saying when comparing Vista to XP. The article linked to by the thread's author said this in one paragraph:

Windows XP is being retired to make way for Windows Vista, the consumer editions of which were launched in Europe on 30 January.

But, the next two paragraphs said:

However, a poll released in early April suggests that Vista has yet to win over significant numbers of potential customers.

The study of 2,223 web-using Americans found that although 87% had heard of the operating system only 12% of those who knew of it were planning to install it.

I suspect this is scaring the beejeezuz out of Microsoft (and its stockholders). And this is perhaps why they want the issue of upgrading forced on consumers ... even though, like Win98SE and ME, there aren't really any significant differences between WinXP and Vista.

But, when Microsoft ends support for XP, be it sooner or later, non-Microsoft people will step in to extend that support ... kind of like what this website has done for earlier versions of Windows and even back to DOS 6.0. And even if Microsoft figured out a way to remotely delete XP, someone would figure out a way to stop it from happening.

[AlecWest]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6551429.stm

Microsoft has confirmed that from 31 January 2008 large PC makers, such as Dell, HP and Toshiba, will no longer be able to buy licences for [Windows XP] so they can install it on new machines.

Note, the other way to spin this is that XP *is* still available in preference to Vista.

There's another way to spin this, too. Does this article sound like a "deja-vu?" It should. Microsoft's website announced that support for WinXP would end on January 1, 2007 (yup, 4 months ago) and there were several articles written about it in late 2005. Then, a retraction appeared in early 2006.

Of course, they didn't have Vista back then. But (snicker), considering that only 12% of XP users plan to upgrade to Vista (see my last post), having Vista now doesn't seem to matter much. Microsoft makes its money by licensing. And if they withhold license authorization from people who design software, they lose that money. If they truly do suspend support for XP come January, they're risking a consumer revolt ... just as this article dated over a year ago predicted if support had ended earlier this year:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39246991,00.htm

The ability to circumvent online activation of XP has been around for some time now. One of my coworkers uses such an "enhanced" version of XP Pro. So even if support ended, people could continue to install and reinstall XP versions as long as they had their original OEM disk and key number ... or another similar disk (ahem). Updates and patches might stop ... but the software would continue to work.

It will be interesting to see what happens (or doesn't happen) come next January. I'm betting it'll be similar to what didn't happen this January.

[idigii]

And this is perhaps why they want the issue of upgrading forced on consumers ... even though, like Win98SE and ME, there aren't really any significant differences between WinXP and Vista

If users refuse to upgrade, they'll just stop the patch service on that version, take 98 for example, to force people to upgrade. That's how MS make money. And I don't see any necessity to upgrade if my system has firewall and anti-virus program.

[jagabo]

If users refuse to upgrade, they'll just stop the patch service on that version...

It's even better (for Microsoft) with XP. They can stop product activation. So the next time you reinstall XP, or change enough hardware, it will stop working after a while. With Auto Updates, WGA, and their onerous EULA they could theoretically kill your computer any time they felt like it. Of course there would be a huge revolt if Microsoft did that.