Windows 10

[sophisticles]

Here's what I'm going to do, I have a spare hard drive, I'm going to install Win 7 on it and configure automatic updates so that they are downloaded and installed automatically and I am going to leave my computer running overnight to see if I wake up to find Win 10 installed.

I want to see for myself if this is possible or not.

By the way, "Glenn" the 3 install options only apply to a clean install of Win 10, I'm pretty sure that Win 10 upgrade installs behave the same way Windows upgrade installs have always behaved.

[glenpinn]

Google stopped working on your computer? Maybe you can get "Glen" (spell my name correctly) with his Windows Certs to help you.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/07/windows_10_auto_injects_itself_into_windows_7/
http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/15/windows-users-report-windows-10-upgrades-are-enforced...their-systems/

Reports are coming in that Windows 10 upgrades seem to be enforced on some systems blah blah blah
Update: A Microsoft spokesperson confirmed that the enforcement was a mistake,

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/213979-microsoft-thinks-youll-love-windows-10-so-mu...without-asking

We at ET haven’t seen this behavior directly

Man, when are you going to stop all this windows 10 crap, you cant answer anything that you are asked, you then deflect your discussion by making false presumptions and accusations about me, which are completely untrue, and then you throw up all this crap about Domains and what not to justify calling me a liar ???

I know what i know, and i post it here based on my own real time experiences and knowledge, and i don't make a habit of posting links to BS websites to justify what i am trying to say, i will leave that trashy crap for you to do, because you seem to be very good at digging up all this stuff, and you are able to do it without windows certification.

You still NEVER answered the question at the end of my previous post regarding which of the 3 installation types the self installer will do.

Until you can prove anything with facts, or answer that question, nobody would ever take you seriously, and you mock me now because i have windows certification (grow up)

[glenpinn]

Here's what I'm going to do, I have a spare hard drive, I'm going to install Win 7 on it and configure automatic updates so that they are downloaded and installed automatically and I am going to leave my computer running overnight to see if I wake up to find Win 10 installed.

I want to see for myself if this is possible or not.

great, so all the stuff you have been saying about self installation so far is based purely on what you read in those stupid trashy websites, and not on real life experiences.

I assumed that you already had a windows computer that already had the windows 10 upgrade files downloaded ready to initiate the installation.

And here you are, over the past 2 pages you have called me a liar, and refuted everything i have said, claiming that you have also got a very good tech background with computers and know what you are saying, then bash me because i have windows certification, yet you have not even got a windows desktop computer or laptop with the Windows 10 downloaded ready to be installed.

Its also ironic that everyone i know (hundreds of people) have the Win 10 upgrade in their taskbar for 3 or 4 months now, most have registered and the setup files are downloaded on their systems, ironically, ever few days they get a small message from the icon in the taskbar informing them that the upgrade is ready to start, they just close the box and ignore it, ironically not one person has had win 10 self install, and that is because they are in a normal windows desktop environment, and this shit just doesn't happen, and as i already said, how can it do the installation without you being there to help it on its way.

The same applies to members of other computer based forums on the internet, nobody has ever heard of it happening to them, or anyone they know either.

Also, if you come back in here and tell me that it has self installed over night, how are you going to prove it ?

Oh, and btw, just to be sure, the installation of windows 10 refers to the windows 10 operating system being installed onto your computer, not just having those updates installed and having the windows 10 upgrade installer files downloaded, so tomorrow morning, according to you, your windows 7 computer should have windows 10 fully installed, without you initiating the upgrade first.

By the way, "Glenn" the 3 install options only apply to a clean install of Win 10, I'm pretty sure that Win 10 upgrade installs behave the same way Windows upgrade installs have always behaved.

Wrong, you got it all backwards m8, a custom install does not offer an option, it asks which Hdd or partition you want it installed onto because it has to be formatted first before installation can be done, where the Win 10 upgrade acts identically to any other upgrade that is started from your current desktop, the Hdd or Partition is not formatted.

here is my folder full of Win 10 upgrade images, look at images 11 and 12, it clearly shows you that you can select from 3 options.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sbma7sg3f8y0l3i/AACzs9Q8EAhTM7OKfcOLtAFba?dl=0

here is my images of a Win 10 custom/clean install, see no selection which type, it just asks you which hdd or partition, because a custom install formats the Hdd or partition first before installing, an upgrade just writes the new OS over the top of the old one, and shoves the old OS into a folder called "windows.old" which can be used from recovery to revert back to your previous OS within 30 days.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/huwua6nadg1pyws/AAC2mNddYnOJPEIXcxY8jKaPa?dl=0

this is a folder full of images taken from a laptop that i installed windows 10 on, and 1 week later i wanted to test out how a full recovery of the installation would work using the windows 10 recovery console, and during this process, you are only offered 2 choices, keep your files only, or remove everything (see image 04) and a system recovery is similar to an upgrade, it does not format your Hdd or the windows partition.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/fjtgk31f7253arf/AABpn1-6Jh0Awc4tEAGzH9bba?dl=0

[hello_hello]

Any evidence of the "reports from networks admins" you referred to?

Google stopped working on your computer? Maybe you can get "Glenn" with his Windows Certs to help you.

Well given you're confusion over unattended and uninitiated installation, I wasn't sure it'd be worth the effort.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/07/windows_10_auto_injects_itself_into_windows_7/
If there's a mention of Win10 being installed in that story, you'll have to point it out to me. Sure, Win10 sometimes seems to be downloading when it shouldn't, but that's not what we're discussing.

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/15/windows-users-report-windows-10-upgrades-are-enforced...their-systems/
Yes, there was a problem at one stage and apparently it was fixed. Nothing to suggest it's expected behaviour in the future.

[glenpinn]

Well given you're confusion over unattended and uninitiated installation, I wasn't sure it'd be worth the effort.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/07/windows_10_auto_injects_itself_into_windows_7/
If there's a mention of Win10 being installed in that story, you'll have to point it out to me. Sure, Win10 sometimes seems to be downloading when it shouldn't, but that's not what we're discussing.

http://www.ghacks.net/2015/10/15/windows-users-report-windows-10-upgrades-are-enforced...their-systems/
Yes, there was a problem at one stage and apparently it was fixed. Nothing to suggest it's expected behaviour in the future.

Thank you for you valued input to this topic, it seems like we just bang our heads on a brick wall with all this stuff, and here i am, providing links to 3 folders full of step by step images of 3 different types of installations that i did on my own laptops, and he still doesn't know the difference between an Upgrade and a Custom/clean install.

I have now completed well over 50 windows 10 upgrades from win 7 or 8.1 and i did them just to get the life time activation set in place on those machines, and once that was completed, some kept the windows 10 and went away to try it out, a few tried it and wanted to revert back to their previous system, others liked it and wanted the windows 10 re-installed in custom mode onto a new and bigger Hdd.

I did those step by step images of the 3 types of installations on my Dell laptop for a very good reason, and that was to offer them to people to help them thru the process of which ever type they wanted to do, because many people just don't have any experience with this sort of thing, but give them some photos to follow, and even a child can do it.

He may mock me and call me a liar, at least i know what i am doing, and have the proven background and history to back myself up.

I also happen to know a hell of a lot about windows licensing as well, and i am also fully certified as a Dell, HP, Asus and Toshiba laptop tech as well, but have never actually worked as a laptop tech for any company, i just got my certifications because i wanted to have them.

Lets see what our friend comes up with tomorrow morning, maybe a gremlin gets into his computer tonight and installs windows 10 for him, without him being there, and then he can tell me which of the 3 types of installations was done by default.

Cheers

[hello_hello]

Lets see what our friend comes up with tomorrow morning, maybe a gremlin gets into his computer tonight and installs windows 10 for him, without him being there, and then he can tell me which of the 3 types of installations was done by default.

If that doesn't happen he'll probably just disappear from the thread.

I'll confess I'm still very wary of the whole Win10 process. Knowing if I was to upgrade a Win7 PC to Win10 I've only got 31 days to change my mind bothers me. Knowing I can't stop updates and one of them could potentially cause major problems worries me. I prefer to set up a PC, install software and if there's no problems make an image but I'm not sure if that's even possible with Win10 if the second you restore an image it'll download patches and updates and drivers again and there's nothing you can do about it.

[glenpinn]

Yes, a lot of people are wary of this free windows 10 upgrade, but you know what, it isn't those every day pc users who go out and buy a computer or laptop and just use it, when they get the notification, everyone just tells them to leave it, which is the best advice, and if they google the topic, they can find a fix for it and remove the icon, and the windows 10 upgrade installation files as well.

The ones who worry most are those who are tech savvy, or people who are being fed all this crap by other people who, themselves, are not even sure of what it is all about, and some of these trashy websites that our friend has been linking us to also don't help either, because most of what is written is crap anyway, and all those websites have paid sponsors, so in many cases, they get paid to sprout that stuff.

The best thing anyone can do is download a free windows imaging tool (i use a tool called EaseUS Todo) and i take an Image of their current windows system to a file, and store it on an external Hard drive, and if i ever want to revert the persons machine back to the day the image was taken, i simply open up my imaging tool, browse to the Image file for that machine on the portable drive, and configure it to run the way i want, and let it revert the Hdd back to its original state.

http://www.todo-backup.com/products/home/free-backup-software.htm

The same applies when you buy a new computer or laptop, these days you don't get backup discs or installation discs, not even a serial key, because windows 8 and 10 don't need one any more if you buy it from a store, these are called OEM computers, but if you build your own, or you want a different version of windows, you buy it, then you get the disc, and the COA sticker with your activation key on it.

The new OEM machine will have a recovery partition on it, but sometimes that will be corrupted just by installing updates, so i always boot up a new machine and set it up the way the owner wants it, and before putting their files on the Hdd, i take an Image of the windows partition, and i keep it stored on my dedicated portable Hard drive to use later on if i need to.

In your case, all i can say is exactly what i have been saying in this thread, and that is just let that Upgrade icon sit there, it might nag you to run the upgrade, but just close it, and if you have windows 7 on your computer, i would still take a snapshot image of your windows partition just in case you need it.

You can also take an image of your new windows 10 upgrade installation as well, something i have done already on 2 of my dell laptops.

Seriously tho, Windows 10 is just about the same as windows 8.1, a few things are different, but overall, most people get used to it, and most people don't care about all this security crap being fed to them by people who suffer with a severe case of paranoia, i just tell people to just ignore it, but be sure to disable as many security settings inside widows 10, some can be disabled during installation (see my installation images) and then grab a copy of a great little tool called O&O ShutUp10 and run it, this tool will configure most of the security settings for you, by disabling most of them, and just leaving a few enabled because they need to be.

http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10/update

My main Dell 2330 AIO desktop pc (my editing machine) still has 8.1 and that is because i am still testing win 10 on my 2 laptops first, if i am happy, i will revert my computer over as well.

Our friend doesn't know what he is talking about, period

[El Heggunte]

Off-Topic, but necessary IMHO:

........

http://www.todo-backup.com/products/home/free-backup-software.htm

tb_free.exe = 116MB

Backup software, OR printer bloatware?

Seriously, tons of fast RAM ++ tons of HDD space ++ tons of 64-bit processing cores still means ZER0 excuses for inefficient coding.

</END-OF-RANT>

[glenpinn]

Off-Topic, but necessary IMHO:

........

http://www.todo-backup.com/products/home/free-backup-software.htm

tb_free.exe = 116MB

Backup software, OR printer bloatware?

not quite sure what your post is all about, obviously you think there is a problem with EaseUS Todo backup software, but anyway, been using it for 2 years, never had to upgrade to the paid for version, and it just works, and i believe it is the best imaging tool out there, definately the easiest, in my opinion.

Cheers

[El Heggunte]

not quite sure what your post is all about

That's what you get by practicing selective quoting

Seriously, tons of fast RAM ++ tons of HDD space ++ tons of 64-bit processing cores still means ZER0 excuses for inefficient coding.

[usually_quiet]

Seriously tho, Windows 10 is just about the same as windows 8.1, a few things are different, but overall, most people get used to it, and most people don't care about all this security crap being fed to them by people who suffer with a severe case of paranoia, i just tell people to just ignore it, but be sure to disable as many security settings inside widows 10, some can be disabled during installation (see my installation images) and then grab a copy of a great little tool called O&O ShutUp10 and run it, this tool will configure most of the security settings for you, by disabling most of them, and just leaving a few enabled because they need to be.

The more I find out about Windows 10 the less happy I am with it. For many, not upgrading until much later makes the most sense, but if they are not tech savvy and not informed of Windows 10's drawbacks they won't realize that they should have waited until it is too late.

Sure someone can disable at least some of the things they don't like, but if someone must disable that many things, then they should be questioning whether Windows 10 has any benefits that make up for having to do all the extra work to make it function as they would like.

The concern with the added telemetry isn't all paranoia. The added telemetry also eats into a user's bandwidth as well as data allotments if they are on a metered Internet account. The peer-to-peer update feature is another one of Windows 10's new tricks that causes problems for people with slow internet service, slow home networks, and metered accounts.

[glenpinn]

The more I find out about Windows 10 the less happy I am with it. For many, not upgrading until much later makes the most sense, but if they are not tech savvy and not informed of Windows 10's drawbacks they won't realize that they should have waited until it is too late.

Sure someone can disable at least some of the things they don't like, but if someone must disable that many things, then they should be questioning whether Windows 10 has any benefits that make up for having to do all the extra work to make it function as they would like.

Your reaction is typical of many windows users out there, because you are one of those people who i referred to in my 2nd last post just up the page, where by you are being made aware of these issues by being on the internet and being part of forums where all this stuff is being talked about.

On the other side you have mr and mrs average pc user who are completely oblivious about all this stuff, and will do the upgrade because they think they need to, or they actually want it, and it is a very easy process to go thru.

Those who buy a new machine with windows 10 pre-installed have no choice, but they are the ones who are least likely to worry about it, they just go home, plug it in, and start using it, and don't even know what is going on, and probably wouldn't care even if you told them.

I often tell people who ask me about doing that upgrade to just hold out for a few months to see if anything changes, some will, others just want it done, so they either do it themselves, get their kids to do it (yep it often gets stuffed up) or i do it for them, but i never do the upgrade until i take an Image of their current windows, so i can revert them back in 10 minutes if they don't like it, and reverting to an Image can be done any time, if you use the recovery console in windows 10 to revery back to your old windows, you only get 30 days to do it, then you lose your old windows for good.

Also, another point, no operating system should put you in a position where by you feel you need to install external apps to change certain settings within windows, and O&O ShutUp10 is one of those tools, which is the first app that i installed on both my dell laptops once the upgrade was done.

I am concerned about all this security stuff, but i feel that i know enough right now to be confident that with my own settings being made during installation, and having that App doing what it did to my security settings, i would be very happy to use windows 10 on a permanent basis, all i am waiting for is to check that all my Software works properly, then i will move over.

After i did the upgrade on both my dell laptops (using a spare 500gb hdd) i made sure the permanent activation was set in place, and i then removed that upgrade Hdd and put the 120gb SSD's back into both laptops, and i then ran a fresh custom/clean installation of windows 10 onto both laptops, because i don't like the idea of having a new operating system running permanently on a partition that held my previous windows on it, i like my windows installed on a freshly formatted Hdd or SSD.

After i did that, i set both laptops up the way i like it, no software, no files, just installed O&O ShutUp10 to make the required changes, then i took an Image of both fresh installs, just in case i ever want a fresh install, and reverting to an Image that has already been set up is a lot quicker and easier to do than a fresh installation.

I can also use that Image if i want to swap out the 120gb SSD for a bigger one.

If i ever have to revert any of my systems back to the original Image, i just need to re-install all my software, which would be done only as i need to use each one.

This is something that everyone needs to do carefully, but my feeling is that Microsoft will cut short its support for windows 7 and 8.1, and by doing so, basically force people to windows 10 anyway, but by the time that happens, there will already be a new version of windows for people to worry about.

The thing is, regardless of all the hype and hysteria being give out in this thread about Windows 10 upgrade self installing itself while you are away from your computer, Microsoft can never allow this to happen, both legally and morally, because the consumers will not tolerate it, and it is your right to retain your version of windows until you decide when you want to change it.

Apparently there was a bug in one update that did trigger off a "self installation" but it was a mistake, and it was corrected by Microsoft, and that has already been mentioned in one of the links provided by our friend sophisticles in one of his posts, but up until that link was posted i had no idea that this had happened, so from now on, a "self installation" of windows 10 "should" definately never happen again to any windows 7 or 8.1 desktop computer, or we hope so anyway.

If you know how to take an Image of your current windows Hdd or partition, i suggest you do it, then run the Upgrade, try it out, and revert back using your Imaging software if you need to, but don't rely on the built in windows recovery console, sometimes that can have problems.

Keep all your Files backed up, or store them on another Hdd while you are testing windows 10.

[vhelp]

After reading a few of these threads, I decided to keep an watchful eye out for if/when it happens to me and report back here when it finally does happen. I certainly do not what that to happen to me. I am happy with windows 7 on this laptop.

Right now, I have not changed anything in my system. And I should not have to do that or research if I have to. I will keep working on my laptop computer, a Dell Inspiron windows 7 Home Premium laptop. I use this laptop for my software application development system. So I am on it most of the time, day and night, from surfing the web, to writing windows and mobile applications.

Around 8/2015 I started getting these pop-ups about every time I restart or shutdown and reboot the laptop.



And, today I started receiving this message, which came up from when my laptop was in sleep mode.



I don't know. I believe that eventually, M$ will force an install and your guess will be as good as mine or anyone else's that M$ made a mistake in one of their nightly updates? or some other excuse. And, that's when my laptop receives them, around 3am, and when I reboot from a shutdown or come up from a "sleep" mode, I will be greeted by a system update message or none at all -- but that I would know that I had a system update(s) installed because I will find a function or two or quirk or strangeness occur and realize I had an recent update w/out my knowledge.

I don't know. I think we should worry. But we shall see...

[glenpinn]

We all get those, just close them, Microsoft cannot force you to move to Windows 10, if they did, world war 3 will definately start that is for sure, and why should you be forced to move when you probably paid money for your windows 7.

There are ways to actually uninstall those windows 10 updates, and there is a few ways to actually get rid of that upgrade icon, as well as permanently deleting the 3gb windows 10 setup folder, but you need to google it, but it can be done.

If you do remove all of it, Microsoft will most likely force that update onto your system and the whole nagging process will start all over again.

I will be moving my main editing pc over eventually, once i am happy with how it runs on both my dell laptoips, and all my softwaere will run properly.

The security issues is not that concerning to me to be honest, i disable all the setting on the 3 or 4 security and privacy screens i get during the installation, and when my laptops got to the new win 10 desktop, i immediately installed O&O ShutUp 10 to disable all the other security settings for me, just saves me from having to find them and do it manually.

Once that is done, i think things seem to be going ok.

[vhelp]

I'm not that worried. I can re-image the laptop, yet again to an ext usb 3 hdd. I'm always making changes etc., so re-imaging the whole hdd is my only resort. What I do then, is take a snapshot of the desktop icons (it helps me to remember where I was in my train of thought) and then write down in notepad what software I have actually installed at the time, and any notes I made of each install, then I add all that to the folder where I write the new image with macrium.

But I'd like to know where did M$ put the 3GB download file on my laptop. I'm curious if they put it in a hidden folder or a virtual folder like they did with my office starter on this laptop.

My next laptop will be a windows 10, and hopefully soon.

[usually_quiet]

But I'd like to know where did M$ put the 3GB download file on my laptop. I'm curious if they put it in a hidden folder or a virtual folder like they did with my office starter on this laptop.

You should find the answer and removal tips here: http://www.howtogeek.com/228551/how-to-stop-windows-7-or-8-from-downloading-windows-10...automatically/

[vhelp]

Just for the record, I purchased a new laptop. Lets just call it a netbook since the C: drive is limited to 32GB or 64GB storage for these types of laptops. And it came with windows 10 home on it. My plan was to buy a new laptop (or netbook) with windows 10 already installed on it and move on. As a software developer, I need all OS's, for obvious reasons. So my need for windows 10 is necessary and benificial. (but that doesn't mean I want my other computers upgraded to it, just because). Anyway.

I prefer to set up a PC, install software and if there's no problems make an image but I'm not sure if that's even possible with Win10 if the second you restore an image it'll download patches and updates and drivers again and there's nothing you can do about it.

How does one handle these situations ?

For instance, I screwed my new latop user name / account, and the only way I can fix it is to factory reset it to brand new and then create my new user name/account. I meant to do it this morning but got tied up in other things. And I'd like to do this now or very soon. However, M$ has already downloaded (w/out my knowledge) software, and installed them, stealing another 2GB or more of space from my precious and limited 64GB space on my netbook. My netbook only comes with a limited 64GB c: drive, and it can't be upgraded to anything higher. You can add external usb storage but can't increase the c: drive space. The more software and in the case of M$ updates that get installed, the smaller the c: drive becomes. Eventually, this thing will run out of space rendering the netbook useless. And I have other netbooks that are 32GB c drives. And all the units have one thing in common. That they take 6GB to 10GB away from the 32GB or 64GB from the start for the hidden recovery partition. And on some units you can't remove the partition. The Asus Transformer is one example. So you end up with less already. And that's before the OS installs itself and then the software and then updates that it has to install. When all done, you are left with very little space on the c: drive. And if you are unlucky, like me, and own an expansive software that requires c: drive to install from (you can't change it to another drive) and a minimum amount of space in order to install completely, or other add-ons, you are out of luck. I am in this situation with the Asus Transformer, and was the reason I replaced it with my newest netbook upgrade, the Nextbook Flexx11 because it has 64GB storage.

Getting back to M$ updates.. So after stealing 2GB sometime very early this morning while I was asleep, when I got up this morning to check on my new netbook, I was greated by M$ message that it was in the middle of installing updates to my dropbox. I did not install it, yet it said that it updating it to the latest version, and took another 600MB of storage space. I am wondering just how many individual software apps go through these update on a regular bases. The c: drive just keeps getting smaller and smaller over time. Eventually, it will fill up and stop or cause unpredictable frustrations.

So all I see in all this with windows 10 is that its a painful marriage to stay in.

Now getting back to my question. How do you handle these constant updates after you have restored an image ? I mean, if you have a good image that you rely on, what do you do when M$ installs missing apps and updates in-between the time of your first image to the time (say 6mo from now) you restore that image?

Will you have to go through all the random updates again ?
Or, is there a feature for incremental imaging that handles this ?

I don't know. I mean. What's the point. My internet bandwith will always be congested with all these software download, install, and updates to various files. It makes imaging useless.

[glenpinn]

I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad L520 from a friend the other day for my daughters friend to use because she smashed her toshiba laptop screen, and i reverted it back to its factory Win 7 pro, did the updates, it got the win 10 upgrade notification during the updates, and i have now tried to upgrade to win 10, using my win 10 iso to launch it, and everything was ok during the initial setup stage while still on the win 7 desktop, it got all the updates required, i chose to wipe everything, and when the laptop did its first re-boot, it starts booting, and stops/hangs at the first win 10 logo and won't go any further, so i press the power button to shut down, and on restart, it loads up on the windows 7 OS, and then i get a screen with a box telling me the upgrade failed, due to a SAFE_OS Phase error during boot (code 0xC1900101-0x20017)

Tried it 3 times, fails each time ????

Is it correct that i can just boot from this USB stick and do a clean install of win 10 pro, and just use the win 7 pro key from the laptop in the serial key screen, and it will activate the win 10, as i have read it can be done, just never tried it.

I will leave the win 7 pro recovery partition on the Hdd if i can do a clean install, but i already have an Image file of the factory reset as well.

[johns0]

You can't install a fresh windows 10 using a win 7 pro key,it has to be upgraded from a windows 7 environment,i tried installing windows 10 from boot and then input my windows 7 key and it said it was not a proper key.

[glenpinn]

You can't install a fresh windows 10 using a win 7 pro key,it has to be upgraded from a windows 7 environment,i tried installing windows 10 from boot and then input my windows 7 key and it said it was not a proper key.

Sorry that bit referring to doing a clean install using the Win 7 key was meant to be typed into the same post i put in another computer forum here in australia, where the members of the windows group have been claiming that it is in fact possible, however yes i input the win 7 key just now and it would not accept it.

So, apparently there are so many people out there having this same upgrade fail for lots of different reasons, and some reporting that it may be due to the optical drive in the laptop, and one guy suggested i temporarily remove the drive and retry the upgrade.

[usually_quiet]

This is something that everyone needs to do carefully, but my feeling is that Microsoft will cut short its support for windows 7 and 8.1, and by doing so, basically force people to windows 10 anyway, but by the time that happens, there will already be a new version of windows for people to worry about.

Cutting support early would be an unusual step. Windows Vista is rather unpopular, but MS has not decided to end support early just because not many are still using it. Since there is no official statement from MS confirming this conjecture, I'll classify this as you spreading FUD in this thread hoping to manipulate doubters into upgrading. I can't understand why you are so dedicated to promoting the Windows 10 upgrade when support for Windows 7 isn't scheduled to end for a little over 4 years and there is a little more than seven left before Windows 8.1 support comes to an end.

I have my own theory about the free Windows 10 upgrade, beyond Microsoft wanting to make more money from us via the App Store and targeted advertising, plus using the information it gathers using Windows 10 metrics to figure out what new products it can invent to make more money from us. I don't think the idea is original to me, but I can't find where I read it. Windows 7 is currently the most popular OS, the new XP so to speak. Microsoft may have made the free upgrade offer because it wants to make sure to avoid the situation it encountered with XP, where it had to extend support for a couple of years because not enough users had migrated to a newer Windows OS.

Microsoft made the free upgrade offer to Windows 8.1 users to put the whole "I hate this crappy tablet OS." mess behind them. However, the free windows 10 upgrade is basically an OEM license. It isn't a great deal for those with a retail Windows 8.1 license who are OK with Windows 8.1 and plan to build a new machine in the next year or two.

[jagabo]

You can't install a fresh windows 10 using a win 7 pro key

You can with the latest update which was withdrawn a few days ago but is available again. This is one of the big new features.

[glenpinn]

You can't install a fresh windows 10 using a win 7 pro key

You can with the latest update which was withdrawn a few days ago but is available again. This is one of the big new features.

yes there has been an ability to just do a clean install of 10 onto the Hdd and use the original 7 or 8.1 key and it was accepted, but i am trying to find out if you had to skip the first serial key screen and just install 10 in the trial mode, and then activate it from the new 10 desktop instead.

As for my dilema getting the 10 upgrade onto this Lenovo laptop, tried it 6 times, from the win 7 desktop, and as soon as it restarts for the first time to load the win 10 files, as soon as those files are loaded, the seup just sits on this logo and stays there.

I even put in a temp Hdd and attempted a clean install from the USB boot stick, and it does the exact same thing.

There are plenty of reported issues with this on the net, so now i have to go try and sort it out

[hogger129]

I bought a copy of 8.1 when I built my new PC last year and have been perfectly happy with it. I have no reason to upgrade to 10. If Linux Mint had the same program compatibility that Windows has, that is what I would be using.

[vhelp]

my first experience with windows 10 as of yesterday, it seems that M$ is staring to look or act a lot like google.

when you open a file, it presents a list of apps to select and launch, much exactly like google except for the UI design
when you go to the M$ store, it looks a lot like googles version except for the UI design

i'm noticing a lot of little "google" details and functionality in windows 10.

[usually_quiet]

my first experience with windows 10 as of yesterday, it seems that M$ is staring to look or act a lot like google.

when you open a file, it presents a list of apps to select and launch, much exactly like google except for the UI design
when you go to the M$ store, it looks a lot like googles version except for the UI design

i'm noticing a lot of little "google" details and functionality in windows 10.

True. Microsoft is attempting to improve its profits by copying what Google (and Apple) do. It gets a cut of App store sales (both Apple and Google do the same with their stores) and it receives revenue from advertising delivered via Bing (embedded ads in the new Start menu, Cortana, and the Edge browser).

[sophisticles]

I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad L520 from a friend the other day for my daughters friend to use because she smashed her toshiba laptop screen, and i reverted it back to its factory Win 7 pro, did the updates, it got the win 10 upgrade notification during the updates, and i have now tried to upgrade to win 10, using my win 10 iso to launch it, and everything was ok during the initial setup stage while still on the win 7 desktop, it got all the updates required, i chose to wipe everything, and when the laptop did its first re-boot, it starts booting, and stops/hangs at the first win 10 logo and won't go any further, so i press the power button to shut down, and on restart, it loads up on the windows 7 OS, and then i get a screen with a box telling me the upgrade failed, due to a SAFE_OS Phase error during boot (code 0xC1900101-0x20017)

Tried it 3 times, fails each time ????

Dude, you're in luck! There a member of this forum that holds certifications in Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 as well as certifications in every laptop ever made AND he has several degrees, not to mention a whole bunch of other tech related skill he didn't just imagine he had.

I'm sure that he will be more than happy to help you, maybe he'll see this thread?

If only I could remember his screenname...

You know what, maybe you can try the less tech savy approach and google that error code and discover that the very first link is this:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/arvindsh/archive/2015/07/07/error-0xc1900101-0x20017-upgrading...ild-10162.aspx

Oh, wow, problem solved and with no need for any certifications, that should not be legal.

[glenpinn]

You know what dude, i knew it before, but this continual mocking of me and my so called qualifications is just becoming absurd to the point where you are just showing to everyone just how bloody narrow minded and childish you really are, and just for the record, just because i have a few certifications does not mean that i know the fix for every single thing, and just so you know, this is more than likely not a windows issue, and that fix in your link is definately not the cause of my lenovo laptop error, it could be any number of dozens of causes that are known, but unfortunately not many of the fixes found do actually work, it all depends on the root cause, and i certainly wouldn't listen to anything you said because you have proven time and again in this forum that you lack even basic knowledge when it comes to computers and more so with Windows, and i will remind you once more that your previous claims that windows 10 upgrade will self install was wrong, and you never had the guts to come back and accept you was wrong after you claimed that you was going to try it yourself, so stop this obsession with trying to put me down and focus on your own short comings.

You can keep mocking me and my so called qualifications (2 windows certifications with another one to gain) but at least i know what i am talking about.

EDIT: sticky note to forehead: just ignore the Trolls and the Mockery of me and my certifications, and i never went to uni so i don't have any degrees that you seem to insist that i have.

[glenpinn]

Windows 10 Upgrade guide for those who might like to read it.

Hi everyone, i know there are a lot of websites and guides out there dedicated to Windows 10 upgrade, some are very difficult to understand, and many just make it almost impossible for many to understand.

So i am throwing this thread into the ring and explaining the move to Windows 10 from my own perspective for those who wish to do the Upgrade, but not sure how to do it, and i will try to make it as simple as i can for the benefit of those who are not very familiar with the actual process, and try to explain it without all the technical jargon, and without any of the so called Security issues and related Paranoia being thrown in, most of it being thrown about by some people who just seem hell bent on trying to scare windows users, and convince them that this is something that they MUST stay away from, and i am not going to get involved in all that, if you want it, this is for you, if you don't want it, then that is your own choice.

Also, if you decide to run this free Upgrade, it will not install onto your system automatically, especially while you are away from your computer, as claimed by one member of this forum, it must be manually started by you, and you, or someone else has to be present during the Upgrade to accept the EULA agreement, and then select the various options needed to complete the Upgrade.

Included in this guide is a link to a folder in my Dropbox account full of photos that i initially took of each step during my first upgrade 2 months ago onto one of my dell laptops, which i hope will help those doing the upgrade as well.

The Windows 10 Upgrade path.

Link to my step by step Images taken during the Upgrade process.
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sbma7sg3f8y0l3i/AACzs9Q8EAhTM7OKfcOLtAFba?dl=0

The first step i made was to download the Media Creation Tool from Microsoft.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-au/software-download/windows10

From there, i downloaded the Windows 10 Home 64bit version because it matched the current Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit that was on my Dell laptop, and i was given the option to download it as a stand alone ISO file on my Hdd, or you can elect to create a USB stick or burn it to a DVD.

For my own purposes, i chose the download as an ISO file, and from the ISO, i then created a bootable DVD as well as a bootable USB Stick for use later on to do custom installations with.

Before i began this laptop upgrade, i wanted to retain my current Windows 7 installation on the Intel 120gb SSD that was in the laptop, just in case i needed to revert back in a hurry, or if i decided not to keep 10, so i used my trusty Backup/imaging tool called EaseUS Todo to create a System Image of the Windows 7 SSD over to my 2tb Data Drive inside the laptop.

While still on the windows 7 desktop, i plugged the new Windows 10 USB Stick into the laptop and initiated the Upgrade from the Windows 7 Desktop by pointing to the Setup file inside the USB stick, and started the upgrade from there, for others, you can just launch it directly from the white Windows 10 Icon sitting in your taskbar, as the setup is almost the same.

Once the Upgrade has been initiated by you, the first step in the process was downloading some updates to begin, then after prep was completed, you are asked what type of upgrade path you wish to use out of a list of 3 options (as shown below)

1. Keep Person Files and Apps
2. Keep Personal Files Only
3. Nothing (basically this is a complete from scratch custom install)

These options are a normal part of any Upgrade from one windows to another, because an Upgrade does not Format (wipe) your Hard Drive or windows partition during the installation like it does when doing a custom/clean install, all that happens is the Setup simply throws your old windows into a folder called "windows.old" and puts the new windows onto the same partition.

In a custom/clean installation your whole Hard Drive, or your windows partition, is completely wiped as part of a Format, so you are not offered those 3 options at all, you automatically lose all your Programs, Apps and any files stored on the actual Windows Hdd or partition.

For the Upgrade, i chose the "Nothing" option because i had no files in my Windows 7 SSD Windows drive, and i did not want to retain my Apps, and after that, the laptop re-started, and Setup proceeded as normal to copy over the setup files, and continue to install Windows 10, and all you have to do is follow each screen as it goes along (see my images if unsure)

During the first phase of installation, the laptop restarted 2 times, then i got to setting up the language and location, set up the WiFi connection, then i selected to Customize the Windows 10 Settings rather than do it later on, then i skipped the Microsoft Account login screen (i recommend that you just skip this part) and i then had to input the PC User name (don't input any password just yet, you can do this later on in the User Account console) and after a few more minutes of final setup, i was then presented with the brand new Blue Windows 10 Desktop.

One thing that you will notice during the Upgrade process was no screen to input a Serial Key like you get with a custom/clean installation, this is because the initial setup checks you current activation status with Microsoft, and if it is genuine, your new Upgrade will be automatically activated for the life of your computer.

Also, you are not presented with the usual "Select your installation destination" box either like it does in a custom installation, again because this upgrade only over writes your old Windows partition (as explained above)

Anyway, the whole process on my laptop took a painfully long time to complete from launching the upgrade, probably in part due to it having to over write the old System, and having to obtain updates etc, and as soon as i got to the Win 10 Desktop, i went straight to the "Updates and Security settings" and found that the new Windows 10 was fully Activated, as it is meant to be.

I then let Windows complete a series of updates, i checked my Device Manager and it appeared all my Drivers had been installed, so i finally set about customizing everything when i finally found my way thru everything.

Security in Windows 10: As far as security goes, this is open to a lot of debate, which again, i am not getting involved with in this thread, BUT i strongly urge everyone to take a look at my installation images, and follow the steps shown in images 26 and 27 and disable each of the setting on both those screens (in later builds there is 3 of these screens to disable settings)

I also strongly urge everyone to download and install a small App called O&O ShutUp 10 you can grab it from my Dropbox folder below, or from their official website, up to you to choose.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ul4ttf7iz4omb58/AAADbobbSojgvzRDi7oDbXTYa?dl=0
http://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

Just open the folder and launch the App to open it onto your win 10 desktop (no installation needed) then go to the Action Tab at the top, and select the Apply all Recommended Settings option to disable many of the settings that you don't need to have, and once this is done, there should only be around 4 or 5 settings still enabled.

Hope this helps those who need it, and good luck with your Upgrade, if you have any questions, please fire away, will try to respond if i can.

I also have a folder full of step by step images of one of my Windows 10 Custom installations as well, this was done on the same laptop after i had done the initial upgrade, so automatic activation was set in the custom installation.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/huwua6nadg1pyws/AAC2mNddYnOJPEIXcxY8jKaPa?dl=0

[usually_quiet]

I had a chat earlier this month with my pharmacist, who says she is not particularly proficient with computers. She installed the upgrade, didn't like what she saw, and went back to using Windows 7.

There are numerous stories reporting the success of the free Windows 10 upgrade program. ...but obviously not everyone keeps Windows 10 after trying it. I haven't found any statistics on that group.