The Reflecta Super8 film scanner to avi conversion thread

[litemakr]

the noise issue...

Is the noise similar on each dark frame? If so there are methods you can use to subtract it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark-frame_subtraction

It is similar but it moves with every frame, it's not fixed.

[jagabo]

It is similar but it moves with every frame, it's not fixed.

If the pattern is the same but it moves because of the registration to correct for film bounce you may still be able to reduce it. Can you provide some short video samples? A handful of all black (except for the noise) frames, and some mixed dark/light frames from a film?

[litemakr]

It is similar but it moves with every frame, it's not fixed.

If the pattern is the same but it moves because of the registration to correct for film bounce you may still be able to reduce it. Can you provide some short video samples? A handful of all black (except for the noise) frames, and some mixed dark/light frames from a film?

Here are some sample frames:

[jagabo]

Here are some sample frames...

It doesn't look like it's a constant noise at the sensor. Dark frame subtraction won't work.

[Blackout]

My next question is... What kind of sensor is it, what brand /model and how do we go about upgrading it...and to what other sensor.

Really Reflecta should be upgrading all our sensors.. This is recall type-stuff. But I don't see that happening.

I personally would like to investigate how to upgrade the sensor myself. After all I've come this far with mods already.

Anyone know some things about sensors?

[Neutron]

When I was trying to find out why my scanner had hung, I had a fairly close look at the electronics, but of course it turned out to be a bug in the firmware. I was curious about how it worked and briefly thought about completely replacing the imager, but went no further.

This shows the boards on the front side of the unit:



The one hanging down has the pushbuttons and indicator LEDs and also drives the film illumination LED board in the swing-out housing, via the thin flexible cable. There is a preset pot which probably sets the LED brightness. Increasing backlight brightness whilst decreasing electronic gain would be one option to reduce noise, but we don't seem to have a proper gain control.

The other board has the imager:



Back of imager board. Not much going on here - the flat flex ribbon cable connects to the main board in the back half of the unit, where the clever stuff is happening.

That board has an MCU, flash memory, eeprom, stepper motor driver, RS232 transceiver, SD card slot and what looks to be a TI "Digital Media System On Chip" - a very clever device indeed.

Front of imager:



It looks like hundreds of other board cameras to me - webcams, machine vision devices, video cameras, etc. The device with a tiny lens on the right is the sprocket detector, presumably just a reflective opto switch.

There is access to the side by pulling off a thin black plastic cover which is only stuck on. Whilst I was in here, I improved the imager focus whilst watching the scanner software output on a large monitor. I wanted to check whether my improved gate pressure pad had altered things, but I don't recommend trying this - there is a strong paint seal on the lens threads and even after scraping it off I had to use a lot of torque.

[jagabo]

sensor... how do we go about upgrading it...

In my experience changing a device like that requires software changes. Unless they're willing to give you the source code or you're willing to invest a lot of time reverse engineering and writing your own software you probably can't just swap the sensor.

[Blackout]

Hey Neutron. I was hoping you would chime in here

excellent photos man. I have a degree in Electronics. I mod a lot of things. mainly synths and audio equipment to make them better. But it seems that mods to the circuit are not going to improve things in this case if the camera is just not up to the job.

But that pot for LED brightness does intrigue me. im surprised you didn't tweak it and see if it changed things. you must have been tempted.

is there a brand anywhere on the sensor board? I have some optimism when seeing that barcode. because it looks like the whole imager board is a 3rd party board, which means it might be an off-the-shelf thing, that could be replaced. But BC14250063 doesn't come up with any results in Google. Neither does 2800048A00 which is a shame. im guessing 2013 /36 is the manufacture date (year 2013 week 36) and A01 is the batch.

Did the focus improve btw? my focus is fairly average overall I would say. I have to use a Sharpen plugin during post-processing that is cranked fairly high. I would really like to have a go at tweaking that camera lens focus...

[Blackout]

sensor... how do we go about upgrading it...

In my experience changing a device like that requires software changes. Unless they're willing to give you the source code or you're willing to invest a lot of time reverse engineering and writing your own software you probably can't just swap the sensor.

hey jagabo...do tell about your experience doing this? have you done this before? I would have thought that possibly sensitivity adjustment and possibly focus would be crucial adjustments but why software?

[jagabo]

hey jagabo...do tell about your experience doing this? have you done this before?

I haven't done this exact thing before but I've programmed embedded systems and hardware interfaces a lot over the last 30 years. Rarely will you find a drop-in replacement for hardware that doesn't require software changes.

[Neutron]

Hey Neutron. I was hoping you would chime in here is there a brand anywhere on the sensor board?

No, unfortunately I think the photos show everything I could see.

Did the focus improve btw?

Yes, but comparing scans before and after I added my plastic pressure plate showed that I had altered the film position slightly, so I had to tweak the focus to get the sharpness I had before the mod. I wouldn't have bothered otherwise.

When mine had hung and I contemplated replacing the imager, I would have ripped out all the electronics and used something like an RPi, keeping only the mechanical arrangements, stepper motor and sprocket detector.

I agree with jagabo's comment about software. I think that the imager is being driven and read by hardware and firmware on the main board designed to work with a particular device. There may be others in a range with the same pinout and read requirements, but without knowing the part number (which might be on the back of the chip so need desoldering) we won't know. I didn't want to unscrew the board from its mounting or remove the lensholder from the board once I got it working again.

I do find the dark noise annoying and I'd like to reduce it, but it hasn't stopped me getting good scans of all the films I've tried so far. When I was using a projector, camera and screen arrangement, I sometimes tried extra gain on the (Pro HD) camera for dark films and ended up with a similar level of noise, so I sort of expect it. Well-exposed films shouldn't show the problem.

If someone could hack the Windows software so we can properly adjust gain, scan integration time, etc. (assuming they aren't fixed in firmware) - that would improve things enormously.

[jagabo]

I think that the imager is being driven and read by hardware and firmware on the main board designed to work with a particular device.

Yes, I meant the firmware in the microcontroller as well as the software on the PC. For example, say it has an 8 bit analog to digital converter. And the manufacturer of the ADC has a pin compatible ADC with a better signal to noise ratio but it's 12 bit. The firmware has to be modified to handle 12 bit samples. And so does the PC software.

[Breaking_the_skys]

helo to all
im the owner of 2 reflecta scanners and i have a vintage camera store
I develop super 8 (color or Bw) and the reflecta was the main item that i needed for the super8 scans ..
BUT..
its really shamefull.. im so so desapointed so lack of quality... and now i really dont now what to do..
sell them and buy a better one ? (with one??) hack the beast to be a beaty ? how ?
thanks for everything and looking for a nice reply to help me

[litemakr]

I am past the return date on my scanner, so I am stuck with it. So I am open to any mods or upgrades. Another issue with the sensor is the low dynamic range. While the noise issues is unacceptable, low dynamic range is not too surprising considering the price range. If we could swap in something like a Blackmagic pocket cam sensor (with 13 stops of dynamic range) the quality would skyrocket.

[litemakr]

When I was trying to find out why my scanner had hung, I had a fairly close look at the electronics, but of course it turned out to be a bug in the firmware. I was curious about how it worked and briefly thought about completely replacing the imager, but went no further.

This shows the boards on the front side of the unit:


[Attachment 31773 - Click to enlarge]

The one hanging down has the pushbuttons and indicator LEDs and also drives the film illumination LED board in the swing-out housing, via the thin flexible cable. There is a preset pot which probably sets the LED brightness. Increasing backlight brightness whilst decreasing electronic gain would be one option to reduce noise, but we don't seem to have a proper gain control.

The other board has the imager:


[Attachment 31774 - Click to enlarge]

Back of imager board. Not much going on here - the flat flex ribbon cable connects to the main board in the back half of the unit, where the clever stuff is happening.

That board has an MCU, flash memory, eeprom, stepper motor driver, RS232 transceiver, SD card slot and what looks to be a TI "Digital Media System On Chip" - a very clever device indeed.

Front of imager:


[Attachment 31775 - Click to enlarge]

It looks like hundreds of other board cameras to me - webcams, machine vision devices, video cameras, etc. The device with a tiny lens on the right is the sprocket detector, presumably just a reflective opto switch.

There is access to the side by pulling off a thin black plastic cover which is only stuck on. Whilst I was in here, I improved the imager focus whilst watching the scanner software output on a large monitor. I wanted to check whether my improved gate pressure pad had altered things, but I don't recommend trying this - there is a strong paint seal on the lens threads and even after scraping it off I had to use a lot of torque.

Could you provide a little more detail about how you adjusted the focus? I feel like mine is slightly on the soft side

[Neutron]

Could you provide a little more detail about how you adjusted the focus? I feel like mine is slightly on the soft side

It was a bit crude and I can't advise anyone to do it as there are risks of damage at each stage.
For anyone used to delicate electronic repair and prepared to take all responsibility themselves (and not blame me for any nasty consequences):

Find a suitable test film which won't matter if it gets damaged, but contains a scene with plenty of well-focused detail. Scan a few frames of this scene now to compare with the results later.

(From memory): With the scanner power and USB cables disconnected, first remove the grey plastic molding with the 2 LEDs and 3 buttons. There are no screws, just 2 clips at the top, 2 at the left side and 2 at the bottom. Squeezing the top and bottom and levering the left, whilst carefully pulling and wiggling worked for me.

Be gentle and don't move the molding far once the clips are free, as the board with the buttons and LEDs is on short leads...

Remove 4 small crosshead screws to release the board and gently leave it hanging from its leads. Be very careful with the grey sleeved thin flat flex leading to the swing-out LED back light box. The other cable and connector are much tougher.

There is a rectangle of black plastic hiding the lens which is just stuck on with double-sided tape. Prise this off and you will see the side of the lens mount.

Carefully scrape as much as possible of the green locking paint off the threads of the lens. Collect all scrapings as you don't want them to find their way into the gate or lens.

Grab the front rotating part of the lens with something. Large pliers would do, but will mark the metal and risk damaging the lens. I used a rubber strap and handle device designed to help with removing jar lids. There are flats on the lens barrel (visible in my Front of Imager photo above), but I had nothing which would fit them. A more competent person could make a useful tool which would make adjustment a lot easier.

You will have to judge how much torque is reasonable. Any remaining thread locking fluid will make rotation very difficult and there is a risk of twisting the lensholder which may impinge on the imager chip!

Carefully thread the chosen test film. Make sure the conductors of the hanging board aren't touching any metalwork. Connect the scanner power and USB, switch it on and start the software. Advance the film to ensure it is sitting normally in the gate.

Use the largest PC monitor you can and maximise the scan software preview window size. Rotate the lens each way to find the best focus, allowing for the slow update of the image.

As the focal length is so short, if the focus is changed the scan area will also change, so you will see slightly more or less of the frame than before. There is also some risk of moving the image horizontally or vertically.

Scan the test scene again and compare it with the first one.

Put it all back together. My lens was very stiff, so I had no thought about using any more thread locking paint!

[Alan Taplow]

Has anyone tried modifying this machine to work with regular 8??? Is it at all possible???

ataplow@gmail.com

[Blackout]

hi Alan, regular 8 film has different gap spaces between the holes. so you would be replacing the sprockets. which are kinda custom. picture size is also different, the Reflecta would progress forward at the wrong distance every frame.

basically, it would not work.

[Alan Taplow]

Thanks for the info & pictures which help me understand the problem. Strange --- with all the dual 8 projectors around, one would think they might have appealed to a wider market by designing this to handle both --- would love to find something in this price range which would do a frame by frame copy. Alan

[brazzod]

New to the thread (and this website in general) So I'm currently working on a short cheesy horror film. We chose to shoot on super 8 to have this authentic vintage feel so I was looking into getting this machine for myself. The problem is, we have been shooting on color negative film stocks. After looking into the Reflecta scanner, it only recommends to scan positive and monochrome film...so has anyone tried scanning color negative film with the Reflecta? I understand it wont have the capabilities to invert the colors but in theory, I don't see why it wouldnt get a clear scan of my film regardless. I can always invert the colors on my editing software (with either adobe premiere or after effects).

[Blackout]

hi brazzod. welcome to the friendly Reflecta thread

basically ...it should work. If you know how to convert the inversion jpg to normal with a plugin or process its really an easy task. You could even do the process by batch automation in Adobe Photoshop. I often get it to action a function on the jpg folder that the reflecta software creates ...processing every frame individually to do color adjustments. You don't need Premiere or AE. I often do my sharpening that way. Then I use Virtualdub to make the avi out of the jpgs....its great for that purpose. its also better to do it this way because the reflecta software makes a 16x9 avi that is compressed. You have all this black empty bars of useless pixels down the sides that it creates. whereas in Virtualdub it spits out an avi in the true 4x3 format of the super8 frames, and you can choose uncompressed avi which makes a far bigger (and better) avi for further processing later without quality loss.

plus having it in VDub means I can use the incredible "DeScratch" plugin, which quite frankly is the best plugin for this I have ever seen, hands down, and ive tried all the expensive ones. I have a lot of footage on Super8 from the snow, so the smallest scratch shows up black against the white snow and this plugin performs miracles. Needs quite a bit of time spent tweaking tho.

http://forum.doom9.org/archive/index.php/t-67794.html

Cheers,
Blackout

[brazzod]

Thanks blackout! I'll definitely look into that DeScratch Plugin! But I'm glad you think it would work. I was just curious if anyone else has physically tried it incase there were any unexpected issues with the scanning process itself. One concern is that Negative film is a little softer than Reversal film, so I am worried than my film will get damaged.

[Blackout]

without doing the mods as described in this thread, you will almost certainly get scratched film brazzod with the Reflecta from even one pass.

if the film is softer than standard Super8, then even more so.

[mickmc1]

Hello All,

Just got a Relecta and just signed up for this forum. What a fantastic amount of great info! A quick question (and I'm certain I'll have more), it mentions a cutter for the head of the film. While I could approximate what they show in the manual with scissors, my old super 8 projector had a cutter that came with it. Is the Reflecta meant to as well? If so, I don't see mine. Is it incorporated in the machine maybe? I don't see that either.

Thanks in advance!

mick

[Blackout]

hi Mick...no cutter supplied. just use the one that came with your old Super8 projector. scissors is never a good option, because it will be so hard to cut in the right place without mis-aligning the holes along the side of the film (assuming you are cutting to connect to another piece of film).

if its just cutting the leader or the start of a piece of film to thread into the machine you can easily use scissors or anything else. I usually cut my film into the shape of point (about 1cm long) when its the start so it threads easier

[mickmc1]

Thanks Blackout...

My early experiences withe the reflecta duplicate most of yours. Frustrating for sure. Have already went to your mods Blackout with improved results.
My question for today is: What version of the software should I be running now? And the firm ware? (they are two separate versions right?)

thanks!

[mickmc1]

Further updates:
After Blackouts mods and a few successful scans, I am now having what sounds like PMBEN's problem. Where the sprocket wheel binds up, makes the disturbing noise and then won't advance the film. One other thing eems to happen. The take up reel seems to 'disengage' and no longer wind at all. Not the motor or gears or belts as it works again once all is restarted. Just seems to have a 'shot off' for when the sprocket wheel binds.

Anyone have any light to shed on this?

thanks.

[mickmc1]

Like PMBen. I'm having the arm drop problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aoZDc7UH6Q

Not sure if it's just the normal process of scanning that causes the 'drop' or if it's binding and therefore dropping. Either way, it's making the reflecta worthless to me. Happens pretty quickly (within 45 frames of starting. Mostly less). Happens with or without splices.

Anyone have this issue and have a fix?

Thanks,

m

[Blackout]

wooww...that youtube video does not look good. Ive never experienced this. but something is siezing up or loose...you would have to investigate closer...

[mickmc1]

The arm drop and the fix that is working (for me so far).

After watching the arm drop (like the video from my post above) for awhile and seeing that if I picked it back up right away and placed it back on the gear that the scanning process would continue without an issue (making me think it wasn't binding and then dropping, instead just dropping) I started to think about how it could be fixed. Bend the arm that holds the gear so it stays locked to the gear? Seems a bit destructive.
I wider gear would work, as then the arm wouldn't be able to slip past and drop. That may be able to be found and purchased.
Ultimately though I noticed that the larger gear (picture below) wasn't symmetrical (when sliced down the middle) and that if it was flipped over it would be out and eighth of an inch (or so) more.

So I flipped it. And now the arm can't make it's way past the gear. The arm no longer drops.